1
00:00:03,429 --> 00:00:01,590
this hour by frederick remington fully

2
00:00:05,269 --> 00:00:03,439
cooked ready to eat bacon exclusive no

3
00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:05,279
refrigeration 10-year extended shelf

4
00:00:08,310 --> 00:00:07,120
life bacon the thickest media center cut

5
00:00:17,780 --> 00:00:08,320
bacon in the industry at

6
00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:22,150
[Music]

7
00:00:29,770 --> 00:00:24,510
so

8
00:00:29,780 --> 00:00:33,030
[Music]

9
00:00:38,630 --> 00:00:35,110
you're in the paracast

10
00:00:39,910 --> 00:00:38,640
the gold standard of paranormal radio

11
00:00:43,510 --> 00:00:39,920
and now

12
00:00:47,990 --> 00:00:45,990
so as we do this episode of the power

13
00:00:50,950 --> 00:00:48,000
cast chris o'brien

14
00:00:53,189 --> 00:00:50,960
is moving it's moving day and so

15
00:00:55,270 --> 00:00:53,199
we know when it comes to

16
00:00:57,189 --> 00:00:55,280
exiting the old home

17
00:00:59,430 --> 00:00:57,199
and finding a new one

18
00:01:01,270 --> 00:00:59,440
you're not given very much time so

19
00:01:03,349 --> 00:01:01,280
anyway he's going to be busy

20
00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:03,359
i did a move last year

21
00:01:07,270 --> 00:01:05,280
and i'm still recovering and i won't ask

22
00:01:09,429 --> 00:01:07,280
our guests about that in the meantime

23
00:01:11,350 --> 00:01:09,439
we've asked kirk collins once again to

24
00:01:13,109 --> 00:01:11,360
be our guest co-host

25
00:01:15,750 --> 00:01:13,119
curt welcome aboard thank you very much

26
00:01:16,950 --> 00:01:15,760
for doing this at the last minute

27
00:01:18,469 --> 00:01:16,960
well thank you you know i quit you

28
00:01:20,149 --> 00:01:18,479
followed you again yesterday and then

29
00:01:22,149 --> 00:01:20,159
you asked me back so

30
00:01:24,149 --> 00:01:22,159
it's just i guess we're just gonna say

31
00:01:26,149 --> 00:01:24,159
i'm on pause now and then

32
00:01:27,510 --> 00:01:26,159
yeah well you know i know about quitting

33
00:01:28,950 --> 00:01:27,520
ufology

34
00:01:31,030 --> 00:01:28,960
mark o'connell

35
00:01:33,030 --> 00:01:31,040
have you ever quit ufology or have you

36
00:01:34,390 --> 00:01:33,040
been involved in the ufo field other

37
00:01:36,469 --> 00:01:34,400
than this book

38
00:01:39,350 --> 00:01:36,479
i've taken a leave of absence which i

39
00:01:42,870 --> 00:01:39,360
guess counts as is the same thing

40
00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:42,880
i worked for about five years as a

41
00:01:47,830 --> 00:01:45,200
certified ufo field investigator for

42
00:01:49,510 --> 00:01:47,840
mufon the mutual ufo network and about a

43
00:01:51,109 --> 00:01:49,520
year and a half ago i took about a one

44
00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:51,119
year leave of absence just so i could

45
00:01:55,830 --> 00:01:52,960
finish my book

46
00:01:57,190 --> 00:01:55,840
unfortunately when i came back to mufon

47
00:01:59,109 --> 00:01:57,200
after a year

48
00:02:03,990 --> 00:01:59,119
a lot had changed

49
00:02:06,069 --> 00:02:04,000
and i quit after only about a month so

50
00:02:07,749 --> 00:02:06,079
we've talked about that a little bit

51
00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:07,759
about mufon that there are a lot of

52
00:02:11,589 --> 00:02:10,000
things there going on that a lot of us

53
00:02:14,630 --> 00:02:11,599
do not like

54
00:02:16,790 --> 00:02:14,640
yeah that seems to be the case yeah well

55
00:02:19,990 --> 00:02:16,800
there's an article i think kevin randle

56
00:02:21,830 --> 00:02:20,000
did it about this inner circle they have

57
00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:21,840
there at mufon where

58
00:02:25,670 --> 00:02:23,120
if you

59
00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:25,680
give a donation of at least five

60
00:02:30,470 --> 00:02:27,840
thousand dollars a year

61
00:02:32,949 --> 00:02:30,480
you become part of this special club

62
00:02:35,190 --> 00:02:32,959
so i don't know about that i understand

63
00:02:36,470 --> 00:02:35,200
that if someone generously donates to

64
00:02:39,030 --> 00:02:36,480
the organization

65
00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:39,040
you want to honor them in some way but

66
00:02:43,589 --> 00:02:40,560
it seems to me these people are getting

67
00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:43,599
some kind of special access because this

68
00:02:47,350 --> 00:02:46,000
person who made the racist comments on

69
00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:47,360
facebook

70
00:02:50,470 --> 00:02:49,200
is a member

71
00:02:51,830 --> 00:02:50,480
of that

72
00:02:53,430 --> 00:02:51,840
inner circle

73
00:02:54,710 --> 00:02:53,440
and i don't know about you unless it

74
00:02:58,070 --> 00:02:54,720
really affects

75
00:02:59,670 --> 00:02:58,080
their bottom line i would send them away

76
00:03:01,589 --> 00:02:59,680
and hand them his money back saying you

77
00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:01,599
know what we don't want your money

78
00:03:05,030 --> 00:03:03,040
yeah i agree

79
00:03:07,830 --> 00:03:05,040
well i i passed on the opportunity to

80
00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:07,840
sell my book on mufon's online store for

81
00:03:11,750 --> 00:03:09,440
that very reason

82
00:03:13,430 --> 00:03:11,760
well we're not going to talk about mufon

83
00:03:15,509 --> 00:03:13,440
but we're going to talk about you as a

84
00:03:16,869 --> 00:03:15,519
person before we talk about a person i

85
00:03:17,670 --> 00:03:16,879
knew slightly

86
00:03:21,430 --> 00:03:17,680
so

87
00:03:24,149 --> 00:03:21,440
background we know of course

88
00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:24,159
the mufon connection but what led you

89
00:03:28,630 --> 00:03:26,720
from wherever you were to there

90
00:03:31,350 --> 00:03:28,640
my fascination with

91
00:03:33,509 --> 00:03:31,360
ufos and aliens in outer space started

92
00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:33,519
at a very very young age my first

93
00:03:38,229 --> 00:03:36,640
conscious memory i swear to you my first

94
00:03:42,070 --> 00:03:38,239
conscious memory

95
00:03:45,110 --> 00:03:42,080
was of a night in 1963 i was about three

96
00:03:47,910 --> 00:03:45,120
three and a half years old and a new tv

97
00:03:49,589 --> 00:03:47,920
show was premiering on abc tv and it was

98
00:03:51,910 --> 00:03:49,599
called the outer limits

99
00:03:54,949 --> 00:03:51,920
and for some strange reason

100
00:03:57,589 --> 00:03:54,959
my mom who was never known to be

101
00:04:00,149 --> 00:03:57,599
a fantasist or a big fan of science

102
00:04:02,949 --> 00:04:00,159
fiction for some reason my mom had that

103
00:04:05,910 --> 00:04:02,959
show on the tv on it's the night of his

104
00:04:06,869 --> 00:04:05,920
premiere episode and when the alien

105
00:04:09,589 --> 00:04:06,879
appeared

106
00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:09,599
uh halfway through the episode i was so

107
00:04:14,789 --> 00:04:11,280
terrified it was this glowing

108
00:04:17,189 --> 00:04:14,799
radioactive uh humanoid alien i was so

109
00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:17,199
terrified of that thing that i ran up

110
00:04:20,550 --> 00:04:18,400
the stairs

111
00:04:22,950 --> 00:04:20,560
and hid behind the corner of the

112
00:04:25,749 --> 00:04:22,960
stairway until the scary monster went

113
00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:25,759
away and that's how it all started ever

114
00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:28,240
since that moment i have just been

115
00:04:31,430 --> 00:04:30,720
absolutely fascinated with anything to

116
00:04:34,710 --> 00:04:31,440
do

117
00:04:36,870 --> 00:04:34,720
with space exploration aliens ufos you

118
00:04:39,110 --> 00:04:36,880
name it also somewhere in there in my

119
00:04:41,510 --> 00:04:39,120
childhood i recall having a recurring

120
00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:41,520
dream haven't had it for many many years

121
00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:42,800
but for a while there was a pretty

122
00:04:46,469 --> 00:04:44,400
regular thing where i would walk out

123
00:04:48,790 --> 00:04:46,479
onto the back steps of our house and we

124
00:04:50,629 --> 00:04:48,800
had a very very big backyard and i

125
00:04:52,310 --> 00:04:50,639
remember i'd go out to the back steps of

126
00:04:54,830 --> 00:04:52,320
the house and look up in the sky and the

127
00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:54,840
sky would just be choked with invading

128
00:04:59,430 --> 00:04:57,199
spaceships heading toward me or heading

129
00:05:01,189 --> 00:04:59,440
towards my family house

130
00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:01,199
so those i think were the two big things

131
00:05:05,189 --> 00:05:03,360
that really started this fascination and

132
00:05:06,629 --> 00:05:05,199
then when i was old enough to go to you

133
00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:06,639
know start reading and going to the

134
00:05:10,150 --> 00:05:07,840
library

135
00:05:12,310 --> 00:05:10,160
my mom was a librarian at our local

136
00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:12,320
library and she would take me in

137
00:05:17,029 --> 00:05:14,880
with her often when she worked

138
00:05:18,710 --> 00:05:17,039
so here's this little you know young boy

139
00:05:21,029 --> 00:05:18,720
i don't know maybe five six seven years

140
00:05:22,950 --> 00:05:21,039
old and i'm kicking around the library

141
00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:22,960
for hours at a time and i just

142
00:05:26,070 --> 00:05:24,960
gravitated toward the one bookshelf that

143
00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:26,080
had

144
00:05:31,350 --> 00:05:28,720
you know all the usual suspects brad

145
00:05:34,790 --> 00:05:31,360
steiger eric vandanakin you know all the

146
00:05:36,790 --> 00:05:34,800
books about the bermuda triangle bigfoot

147
00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:36,800
poltergeist loch ness monster and of

148
00:05:40,469 --> 00:05:38,639
course ufos those were the books i

149
00:05:42,870 --> 00:05:40,479
always went to and read over and over

150
00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:42,880
and over again i'm pretty sure the first

151
00:05:47,590 --> 00:05:45,600
ufo book i read was frank edwards ufo

152
00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:47,600
serious business

153
00:05:51,909 --> 00:05:49,840
so that that really cemented it and then

154
00:05:53,350 --> 00:05:51,919
there was one more one more moment from

155
00:05:54,950 --> 00:05:53,360
my youth that i remember this is when i

156
00:05:57,510 --> 00:05:54,960
was 13

157
00:06:00,310 --> 00:05:57,520
and the news broke of the pascagoula

158
00:06:02,790 --> 00:06:00,320
mississippi alien abduction with charles

159
00:06:04,870 --> 00:06:02,800
hickson and calvin parker so up until

160
00:06:08,469 --> 00:06:04,880
this point i had only been reading about

161
00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:08,479
ufos in in books at the library and

162
00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:11,280
suddenly here was a real ufo case

163
00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:13,680
a spectacular ufo case that was being

164
00:06:16,469 --> 00:06:15,520
talked about and reported on the nightly

165
00:06:18,230 --> 00:06:16,479
news

166
00:06:19,510 --> 00:06:18,240
for days and days and days and i

167
00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:19,520
remember that having such a huge

168
00:06:23,270 --> 00:06:21,600
impression on me because it it really

169
00:06:24,710 --> 00:06:23,280
impressed upon me

170
00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:24,720
these aren't just stories in a book

171
00:06:30,230 --> 00:06:27,520
anymore these are real events

172
00:06:31,110 --> 00:06:30,240
that are taking place involving real

173
00:06:33,189 --> 00:06:31,120
people

174
00:06:37,189 --> 00:06:33,199
who are dealing with real consequences

175
00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:37,199
of the experience so that moment in 1973

176
00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:39,520
when the pascagoula case um you know

177
00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:41,280
became headline news

178
00:06:46,469 --> 00:06:44,000
i think is was probably the final the

179
00:06:48,710 --> 00:06:46,479
final brick in in uh you know putting

180
00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:48,720
together my massive love and fascination

181
00:06:53,350 --> 00:06:51,280
with all of these themes

182
00:06:55,830 --> 00:06:53,360
so very briefly here and we all got

183
00:06:57,749 --> 00:06:55,840
started with ufos when we were young

184
00:06:59,110 --> 00:06:57,759
so mark what is your professional

185
00:07:00,870 --> 00:06:59,120
background

186
00:07:03,749 --> 00:07:00,880
what was your day job or what is your

187
00:07:08,309 --> 00:07:03,759
day job

188
00:07:09,909 --> 00:07:08,319
screenwriting at depaul university in

189
00:07:11,670 --> 00:07:09,919
chicago

190
00:07:14,790 --> 00:07:11,680
and like most writers i've had a whole

191
00:07:17,270 --> 00:07:14,800
variety of day jobs over the years i'm

192
00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:17,280
proud to say that for almost the

193
00:07:21,430 --> 00:07:20,400
entirety of my adult career and i'm 57

194
00:07:23,189 --> 00:07:21,440
now

195
00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:23,199
i've been able to support myself and my

196
00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:25,280
family with my writing so it hasn't

197
00:07:29,749 --> 00:07:26,960
always been the kind of writing i was

198
00:07:31,589 --> 00:07:29,759
always excited to do of course um but i

199
00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:31,599
was always writing so that's that's what

200
00:07:34,309 --> 00:07:33,120
brought me here

201
00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:34,319
right now

202
00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:37,120
what we do find here is amongst your

203
00:07:41,270 --> 00:07:40,080
screenwriting work

204
00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:41,280
includes

205
00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:43,120
some star trek stuff

206
00:07:48,710 --> 00:07:46,720
yes when i was when i first signed on

207
00:07:51,110 --> 00:07:48,720
with my first agent which was in about

208
00:07:53,670 --> 00:07:51,120
1990

209
00:07:55,909 --> 00:07:53,680
uh star trek was star trek the next

210
00:07:57,510 --> 00:07:55,919
generation uh had been on the air for a

211
00:07:58,950 --> 00:07:57,520
couple years and was becoming a pretty

212
00:08:00,710 --> 00:07:58,960
big hit

213
00:08:02,950 --> 00:08:00,720
and the star trek producers had this

214
00:08:05,110 --> 00:08:02,960
very unusual policy unusual for

215
00:08:07,350 --> 00:08:05,120
hollywood they had an open door policy

216
00:08:09,270 --> 00:08:07,360
they would accept scripts from any

217
00:08:10,869 --> 00:08:09,280
writer even if the writer didn't have

218
00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:10,879
any professional credit status to her

219
00:08:16,150 --> 00:08:14,240
name so because of that i was able to

220
00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:16,160
write a spec script for the next

221
00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:17,440
generation

222
00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:19,599
uh and my agent was able to submit it to

223
00:08:23,749 --> 00:08:21,440
them and it got read i mean basically

224
00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:23,759
it's guaranteed any script that crosses

225
00:08:27,749 --> 00:08:25,280
the desk of their producers will get

226
00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:27,759
read and you will get feedback on it

227
00:08:32,550 --> 00:08:30,160
so ultimately i found out that they

228
00:08:34,790 --> 00:08:32,560
liked my script enough that they wanted

229
00:08:37,509 --> 00:08:34,800
me to come in and pitch stories for next

230
00:08:39,269 --> 00:08:37,519
generation so i made an appointment now

231
00:08:41,350 --> 00:08:39,279
that i'm living in wisconsin at the time

232
00:08:42,949 --> 00:08:41,360
so i'm doing this all over the phone

233
00:08:44,790 --> 00:08:42,959
okay

234
00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:44,800
so we set up an appointment for me to

235
00:08:48,310 --> 00:08:46,720
talk with one of the producers a guy

236
00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:48,320
named joe manoski

237
00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:50,240
and they give me the ground rules i can

238
00:08:54,630 --> 00:08:52,720
pitch up to four different story ideas

239
00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:54,640
the pitches should take about 10 minutes

240
00:08:57,269 --> 00:08:56,480
each

241
00:08:59,030 --> 00:08:57,279
and

242
00:09:01,190 --> 00:08:59,040
you only get one chance because there's

243
00:09:03,430 --> 00:09:01,200
so many other people waiting in line

244
00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:03,440
that if you don't make a sale on that

245
00:09:07,509 --> 00:09:05,040
first pitch with those first four story

246
00:09:09,430 --> 00:09:07,519
ideas you're done so okay

247
00:09:11,509 --> 00:09:09,440
so i work up four story ideas for next

248
00:09:12,949 --> 00:09:11,519
generation and i do the phone pitch with

249
00:09:13,829 --> 00:09:12,959
joe manoski

250
00:09:15,910 --> 00:09:13,839
and

251
00:09:16,870 --> 00:09:15,920
all four of the stories go down in

252
00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:16,880
flames

253
00:09:20,310 --> 00:09:18,560
and i'm sitting there at my kitchen

254
00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:20,320
table on the phone thinking well that's

255
00:09:25,269 --> 00:09:23,200
that i had my chance and it's done

256
00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:25,279
but then uh joe started saying some

257
00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:27,120
strange things he started saying okay

258
00:09:30,230 --> 00:09:28,720
mark here's what i want you to try next

259
00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:30,240
time i want you to tell this kind of

260
00:09:34,310 --> 00:09:32,000
story and this kind of story and i cut

261
00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:34,320
them off i said wait excuse me what i

262
00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:36,480
thought i only got one chance at this

263
00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:38,000
and he said well

264
00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:40,080
those are the rules normally you only

265
00:09:43,750 --> 00:09:42,160
get one chance but he said i really like

266
00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:43,760
your story ideas so i want you to come

267
00:09:47,110 --> 00:09:45,120
back and try again

268
00:09:49,509 --> 00:09:47,120
you know what we'll continue with

269
00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:49,519
how mark o'connell became a star trek

270
00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:51,920
script writer before we get into his

271
00:09:56,710 --> 00:09:54,080
book the close encounters man

272
00:10:02,860 --> 00:09:56,720
with gene and with kurt commons you're

273
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:08,470
[Music]

274
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:10,870
we also have swag you know we have all

275
00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:14,160
these exclusive power cast things that

276
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:16,800
you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

277
00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:20,079
so different items and entails t-shirts

278
00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:23,519
sleeves for notebook computers ipad

279
00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:26,800
cases mouse pads the power cast jumbo

280
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:29,040
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

281
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:30,800
jackets and stuff like that for men and

282
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,839
women we have a power cast aluminum

283
00:10:39,470 --> 00:10:36,000
water bottle all this stuff you go to

284
00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:39,480
store dot the powercast.com

285
00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:41,440
store.thepowercast.com what makes

286
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:44,000
special is that the items are the best

287
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:46,959
quality or great t-shirts fabrics and

288
00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:48,720
they have our official logo on them

289
00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:49,920
that's what makes them special in

290
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:53,120
multiple sizes and colors we even have

291
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:55,600
stuff for children stuff for women stuff

292
00:11:00,710 --> 00:10:58,079
for men we have all sorts of sizes like

293
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:00,720
small up to x large a lot of good stuff

294
00:11:04,430 --> 00:11:03,040
that's the swag from the power cast you

295
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:04,440
go to

296
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:07,040
store.thepowercast.com stop by and take

297
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:09,519
a shopping tour if you're a sleep apnea

298
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:11,440
sufferer who's on the go go to your

299
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:13,200
phone because if you give us a call

300
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:14,640
right now you'll be able to try the

301
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,120
world's first portable mini cpap device

302
00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:19,760
absolutely risk-free for 10 restful

303
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,480
nights it's the transcend mini cpap an

304
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,240
engineering marvel that's as small as a

305
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,160
soda can and weighs less than a pound

306
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:28,640
its unique design is so small and so

307
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:30,320
light you can fit it in your briefcase

308
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:32,800
or purse to use anywhere you go no more

309
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:35,760
dragging around a big bulky cpap even

310
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:37,519
better now you can try transcend

311
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:40,000
absolutely risk free for 10 restful

312
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:42,240
nights by calling mini cpap.com

313
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:47,590
transcend is faa compliant too so you

314
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,760
can even sleep comfortably while flying

315
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,360
you can also add a battery pack that's

316
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:53,760
as tiny as a deck of cards so now you

317
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:55,120
can enjoy the freedom to sleep

318
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,680
comfortably anywhere but don't wait to

319
00:12:02,990 --> 00:11:59,680
receive your 10 night in-home trial call

320
00:12:10,069 --> 00:12:03,000
mini cpap.com now

321
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,829
it's a no-brainer a big berkey water

322
00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:13,519
filter is the one you need period you

323
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:14,800
need a water filter that removes

324
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,279
chlorine fluoride pharmaceuticals bpa

325
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:18,720
and other endocrine disruptors

326
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:20,800
pesticides bacteria viruses and much

327
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:22,639
more right and does it all at only two

328
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:24,399
cents per gallon get the original most

329
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:26,320
trusted name in gravity water filtration

330
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:28,560
big berkey and now gcn listeners receive

331
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:30,560
five percent off ceramic filter systems

332
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:32,720
using code gcn call or click one eight

333
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:34,720
seven seven nine nine berkey or big

334
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:36,720
berkey water filters dot com that's one

335
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,920
eight seven 1-877-99 b-e-r-k-e-y

336
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:41,519
have you checked your google search

337
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,360
results lately search results are

338
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:45,200
usually the first impression that people

339
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:47,040
form of you or your business so make

340
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:48,560
sure that they create a positive

341
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:51,360
impression with reputationdefender.com

342
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,880
what the internet says about you can

343
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,560
have a big impact on your life and your

344
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:56,560
livelihood even if it's not true

345
00:13:00,790 --> 00:12:58,560
fortunately you can now control how you

346
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:00,800
look online and in online search results

347
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:03,040
with reputationdefender.com

348
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:05,040
call

349
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:06,079
seventy one 800-831-071

350
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,440
that's eight hundred eight three one

351
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:09,440
zero seven seventy one for your free

352
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:11,920
reputation analysis if you have negative

353
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,839
material from an ex-employee upset

354
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,680
patient or former client newspaper

355
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,680
article legal issue social media or

356
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:19,200
other source showing up in your search

357
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,880
results you can combat it with

358
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:22,959
reputationdefender.com

359
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:24,800
our dedicated experts and patented

360
00:13:29,470 --> 00:13:26,480
technology can help make your online

361
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:29,480
search results look their best call

362
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:33,040
800-831-071 to learn more

363
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,480
seventy one 800-831-071 eight hundred

364
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:36,560
eight three one zero seven seventy one

365
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:39,440
or visit reputation defender dot com

366
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,000
hunters anglers campers and survivalists

367
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,320
get back to nature expand your horizons

368
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:46,320
with the highest quality most versatile

369
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,320
unique slingshots and sling bows on the

370
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:51,120
market at slingbow.com slingbow products

371
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,040
are compact and models start from just

372
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,519
17.98 they're perfect for your bug out

373
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,360
bag or storing in your vehicle give

374
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,040
yourself and your loved ones the

375
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:01,279
excitement and tradition of slingbow a

376
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:03,680
new frontier in archery and truly modern

377
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:05,680
twist on this primitive survival tool

378
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,150
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

379
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:16,560
comment or question about the paracast

380
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:20,160
send it to news at theparacast.com

381
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:23,360
that's news at theparecast.com

382
00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:25,199
and don't forget to visit our famous

383
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:28,360
paracast community forums at

384
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:34,550
so we're back with mark o'connell author

385
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:37,279
of the close encounters man how one man

386
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:38,639
made the world

387
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:40,880
believe in ufos that man being dr j

388
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:43,279
allen heineck and listeners i did get to

389
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,800
meet him a few times

390
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,320
and have a couple of stories to tell and

391
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,480
i'll do that later so right now of

392
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:50,639
course we're seeing how mark became a

393
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:52,480
star trek screenwriter so the first four

394
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:53,839
ideas mark

395
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,639
no go but they liked you enough to give

396
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:59,279
you despite the rules to the contrary

397
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,000
another opportunity what happened well i

398
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,839
jumped at the opportunity of course

399
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:05,279
because who wouldn't

400
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:06,800
and so i came back a few months later

401
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,399
and pitched four more stories and they

402
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,880
all went down in flames but they invited

403
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,560
me back again so

404
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:14,560
we went through this cycle probably a

405
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:16,240
half a dozen times over the course of

406
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:18,560
the next i believe a year and a half

407
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:20,480
i kept getting very frustrated but they

408
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:22,320
kept inviting me back and giving me

409
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:24,000
advice on you know how to do better

410
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:25,760
stories and i thought i'm the kind of

411
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,360
person who if you invite me back i'm

412
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:28,880
going to come back i'm going to take you

413
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:29,920
up on that

414
00:15:33,750 --> 00:15:32,160
and make you regret it so i just kept

415
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,760
coming back and pitching

416
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,680
and then finally one day i pitched the

417
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:37,680
right idea to the right producer on the

418
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:38,720
right day

419
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:41,519
and about two weeks after my pitch the

420
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:44,240
producer brandon braga called me up and

421
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:46,880
said hey mark we really want to use one

422
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:49,279
of your new story ideas he said here's

423
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,480
the problem

424
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,639
we just had our script for this week's

425
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:54,399
episode thrown in the trash by our

426
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:56,959
executive producer so we have to shoot a

427
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:58,480
show in two days

428
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,399
it has to be done in eight days and we

429
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,720
don't have a script so

430
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:04,560
he said we really want to buy

431
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:06,639
the idea behind one of your stories

432
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:09,440
unfortunately because time is

433
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,480
is so short we can't hire you to write

434
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:14,560
the script we can only buy the concept

435
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,320
from you so

436
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:18,320
what was i going to say of course i

437
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,360
agreed

438
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,120
so they essentially bought one sentence

439
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:22,959
from me and then they went ahead and

440
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:24,800
wrote the script and aired the episode

441
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:26,880
and at the time brandon said you know if

442
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:29,040
you if you play ball with us on this

443
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,880
you know you'll get another shot at

444
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:32,480
doing an episode and sure enough six

445
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:34,880
weeks later i made my first sale to uh

446
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:37,040
deep space nine so the remainder of my

447
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:38,639
episodes were all written for deep space

448
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:42,079
nine okay so the first episode that you

449
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:44,399
did more than one line which one was

450
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:46,079
that

451
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:50,480
nine episode called second sight it was

452
00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:53,440
the first love story for commander cisco

453
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:55,600
on the space station deep space nine

454
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:57,199
next generation episode where they

455
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:58,959
bought my story concept that was called

456
00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:01,759
timescape and unfortunately

457
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,759
because they simply bought one sentence

458
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:05,439
the writer's guild doesn't have a

459
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,799
category

460
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,720
for selling one sentence

461
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:10,640
so even though i was paid very well for

462
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:12,319
that one sentence i didn't get my name

463
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:14,000
on the screen i didn't get a screen

464
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:15,839
credit for that next generation episode

465
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:17,199
but i did for all the deep space nine

466
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,959
episodes so it all worked out pretty

467
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:21,360
nicely how many episodes of deep space

468
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,839
nine did you do i i wrote four episodes

469
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:25,439
of deep space nine

470
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,959
some of them i wrote the story and

471
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:29,039
script for one i did the script but not

472
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:30,720
the story and the fourth i did the story

473
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:32,720
but not the script so each one sort of

474
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:34,480
developed in its own way

475
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:36,640
so beyond that where did you go after

476
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:39,679
deep space nine well i i pitched a few a

477
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:41,600
few times to the new star trek show

478
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:44,000
voyager but that was an exercise in pure

479
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,640
frustration voyager never quite knew

480
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:48,640
what it wanted to be and it was just

481
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,559
impossible to pitch stories to them

482
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:52,160
because every time i would talk to the

483
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:53,840
producers they would be

484
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,280
in a completely different space than

485
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:57,440
they had been the time before and they

486
00:17:59,909 --> 00:17:58,799
were looking for completely different

487
00:18:02,230 --> 00:17:59,919
stories than they thought they were

488
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:02,240
looking for so voyager was kind of a

489
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:04,240
dead end had a couple other interesting

490
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:07,039
opportunities in in la but

491
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,200
decided to focus at that point on

492
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:11,919
feature scripts for theatrical movies

493
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:14,320
and my agent was all in favor of that so

494
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:17,200
from about 2000 to about 2008 when the

495
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,960
big writers strike changed the whole

496
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,039
industry i just wrote movie scripts and

497
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:23,600
had several of those uh move forward

498
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:24,880
with production companies a couple of

499
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:26,960
them were optioned a couple of my uh

500
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:28,960
scripts were put in development none of

501
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:31,120
them was produced sorry to say but i was

502
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,559
getting enough interest to keep up some

503
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,240
momentum in my career and that's you

504
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:36,160
know that counts for a lot

505
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:38,240
okay the writers strike how did that

506
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:40,080
change things closed down some

507
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:42,640
opportunities for writers well because

508
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:44,559
the strike lasted a while

509
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,440
all of the networks shut down

510
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:49,840
production of scripted shows and they

511
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:53,280
all started airing reality tv shows

512
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:54,840
so even though

513
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:57,440
technically we members of the writers

514
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:58,960
guild technically

515
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:01,600
won the strike we got what we wanted out

516
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,440
of the strike but the unintended

517
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,360
consequence was that the entire tv

518
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:07,520
industry changed and as i said that the

519
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:09,200
networks all started buying reality

520
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,240
shows so all of us writers who had just

521
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,080
gotten these new gains in you know our

522
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:16,799
basic pay and our benefits were suddenly

523
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:19,440
finding that there were very few actual

524
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,440
writing opportunities anymore so that's

525
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:23,600
kind of what changed all of that so from

526
00:19:28,070 --> 00:19:26,400
about two things 2008 on i was really

527
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:28,080
wasn't working on anything of a whole

528
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,000
lot of interest until i hit up on the

529
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,240
idea of writing my ufo blog hi strangest

530
00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:33,919
and that's how this whole book thing

531
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:35,039
came about

532
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:35,840
now

533
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:40,720
years ago how did the idea of

534
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:43,679
doing a bio of him come about it really

535
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,600
just fell in my lap i was in the right

536
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:47,760
place at the right time i had been

537
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:50,080
writing a ufo blog called high

538
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,200
strangeness which was you know kind of

539
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,600
partly serious partly tongue-in-cheek i

540
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,840
i saw a lot of things in ufo culture

541
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:59,600
that that were

542
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:01,360
that were a little silly and i thought

543
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:03,760
deserve to be poked fun at so i i would

544
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:05,760
do that in my blog regularly and i still

545
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,640
do

546
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:08,240
um

547
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:10,080
but when you start writing a blog you

548
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:12,960
have this unending need for new material

549
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:14,000
and so

550
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,640
i i spent a lot of time online just do

551
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,559
it first of all going to my bookshelf

552
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:20,960
and rereading all my old ufo books and

553
00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:23,280
then just doing endless online research

554
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,440
into ufo topics and what was currently

555
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:27,919
happening in the ufo field and in the

556
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:30,400
course of that i discovered that the dr

557
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:33,520
j ellen heineck center for ufo studies

558
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:36,080
was still in existence and it was just a

559
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:37,760
couple miles from where i was then

560
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:39,919
living in chicago in the northwest

561
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:42,640
suburbs so i contacted mark rodiger

562
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:44,240
who's now the scientific director of

563
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,440
kufos

564
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:47,520
and asked if i could come visit and just

565
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:50,000
sort of poke around in their files

566
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,960
and he he agreed to that so that's

567
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:55,440
started a long series of visits in which

568
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:57,520
i would just sort of randomly look

569
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:59,039
through all of their fascinating files

570
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:00,559
and records and look for ideas for

571
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:02,480
things to write about in my blog and

572
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:04,559
after a couple of these visits mark mark

573
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:06,000
and i got to know each other a little

574
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:08,559
bit and he read my blog and seemed to

575
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,960
seem to find it entertaining so on one

576
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:12,960
of these visits he said you know he just

577
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,320
sort of casually mentioned you know

578
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,200
we've always wanted to find a writer to

579
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:19,200
write the definitive account of dr

580
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:22,080
heineck's career and i said oh please

581
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:24,240
please pick me i would love to do that

582
00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:28,000
so he was agreeable so he said okay well

583
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:30,320
you have access to all the files have at

584
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:31,280
it

585
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,080
so

586
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,240
at that point i really started digging

587
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,480
through the archives of kufos and found

588
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,120
that so mark rodinger has about half of

589
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:41,760
the files in his basement and then one

590
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:44,240
of the other kufos officers mary kastner

591
00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:47,039
has all of the case report files in her

592
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:50,240
basement and in her attic so the kufos

593
00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:52,799
that alan heineck founded in the 1970s

594
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,559
there's not much of it left it's a bunch

595
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:56,720
of beat up old file cabinets and

596
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:59,120
bookshelves filled with books and and

597
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:00,559
the people who are the keepers of the

598
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,640
flame mark rodiger and mary castner and

599
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:04,720
the other kufos volunteers you know

600
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,559
they're all very great very dedicated

601
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:08,559
people but there's just no money to

602
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:10,640
really put those files somewhere where

603
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,880
they can be preserved for all time and

604
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:14,960
that's that's kind of a shame but that's

605
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,880
another story but that but now you know

606
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:18,720
how the book came to be it was basically

607
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:20,080
i was in the right place at the right

608
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:21,120
time

609
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:21,840
so

610
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:23,919
in doing research of a book like this do

611
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:27,440
you go back to dr heineck's family or do

612
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:28,240
you

613
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:31,039
basically fill in the details

614
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,120
about what he did first

615
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:35,120
well initially the book was just going

616
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,320
to be about his career and actually his

617
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:40,799
two careers his career as an astronomer

618
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:42,240
and an educator

619
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:45,600
and his second career as a ufo expert

620
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:46,880
let's do our break here and we'll

621
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:49,840
continue okay mark o'connell with gene

622
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:04,070
thank you for listening to gcn

623
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:04,909
visit

624
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:08,480
gcnlive.com today

625
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:10,720
the answer to being in control of your

626
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:12,799
own health care is freedom from

627
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:14,960
insurance become part of a group of

628
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,120
self-pay patients that come together to

629
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:19,280
share in each other's medical expenses

630
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,000
individual share amounts begin at 107 a

631
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:24,960
month and 347 for families choose from

632
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,880
three health sharing programs holistic

633
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,799
treatments may be eligible for sharing

634
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:30,559
see guidelines discount programs

635
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:33,039
available for dental vision and pharmacy

636
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:35,440
go to libertyoncall.org that's

637
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:38,240
libertyoncall.org

638
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,320
hi this is ted anderson i'm here to tell

639
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:42,720
you about gcntelcare.com

640
00:23:47,270 --> 00:23:44,720
a team of board certified doctors

641
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:47,280
assisting you 24 hours a day 7 days a

642
00:23:53,029 --> 00:23:50,880
week 365 days a year within 15 minutes

643
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:53,039
of registration care your family can

644
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:55,200
afford revolutionizing the healthcare

645
00:24:00,149 --> 00:23:57,600
industry virtual consulting providing

646
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:00,159
diagnosis of non-emergency medical

647
00:24:05,230 --> 00:24:02,400
issues by phone or secure video on

648
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:05,240
computer or smart mobile devices

649
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,590
we all know that berkey water

650
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,440
purification systems are the most

651
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:15,600
trusted name in water filtration as an

652
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:17,679
authorized berkey dealer for over six

653
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:19,520
years and serving thousands of satisfied

654
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:22,159
customers the berkey guy offers amazing

655
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:24,080
specials for berkey water filtration

656
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:26,080
systems the berkey light systems include

657
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,600
a set of self-sterilizing and

658
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:29,600
re-cleanable black purification elements

659
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:31,760
that purify water by removing chlorine

660
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,159
pathogenic bacteria cyst and parasites

661
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:36,080
to non-detectable levels and remove

662
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:38,080
harmful chemicals such as herbicides and

663
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:40,240
pesticides order the berkey light system

664
00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:42,159
today complete with two black berkey

665
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:44,720
elements for only 231 dollars and the

666
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:46,640
berkey guy will ship your order free of

667
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:48,320
charge with the purchase of a berkey

668
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:50,400
light the berkey guy is also offering a

669
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:52,559
set of fluoride and arsenic filters for

670
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,440
only 39.99 that's over 30 percent off

671
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:57,600
the retail price call the berkey guy at

672
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,950
that's

673
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:06,350
1-877-886-3653 or order online at

674
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:09,760
gobertke.com that's goberky.com today

675
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:11,120
attention business owners and

676
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:12,880
independent contractors this is a

677
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,960
money-saving message from tax mediation

678
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,200
services if your business owes twenty

679
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:19,360
thousand dollars or more in taxes we can

680
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,559
help you today right now listen dealing

681
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,559
with the irs is no picnic it's an

682
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:26,960
intimidating and extremely stressful

683
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:28,880
process and you don't want to go it

684
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:31,840
alone our attorneys know every law every

685
00:25:37,029 --> 00:25:34,480
tax break and every possible opportunity

686
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:37,039
to help you resolve and reduce your tax

687
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:39,039
debt and if you owe more than twenty

688
00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:40,799
thousand dollars you may be at the top

689
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:42,880
of their hit list so don't take your tax

690
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:45,360
debt lightly because it will not go away

691
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:47,760
on its own the irs can seize your bank

692
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:50,480
accounts your home and even shut down

693
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:53,120
your business call our tax experts today

694
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,590
and let us deal with the irs while you

695
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:01,120
focus on your business that's

696
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,110
again that's 800-765-9681

697
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,870
hello i'm mike lindell the inventor of

698
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:12,799
my pillow and like all of you out there

699
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,960
i had problems sleeping pillows would go

700
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:16,960
flat i would flip-flop all night long i

701
00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:18,799
would wake up with a sore neck maybe a

702
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:20,400
headache or feel like i needed a nap

703
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:22,080
even though i slept eight hours when i

704
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:23,919
invented my pillow i wanted it to where

705
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:25,840
you can move the patented fill to give

706
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:27,840
you the exact support you need as an

707
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,080
individual regardless of sleep position

708
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:31,840
my pillow will get you into that deep

709
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,760
rem sleep faster and you will stay there

710
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:35,600
longer it's not about how much time we

711
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,360
spend in bed it's about how much of that

712
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:39,679
quality sleep we get i do all of my own

713
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:41,360
manufacturing right here in the united

714
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,440
states i have a 10 year warranty you can

715
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:45,520
wash and dry my pillow and i give you a

716
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,840
60 day money back guarantee so you have

717
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:50,159
nothing to lose and here's my best offer

718
00:26:53,789 --> 00:26:51,840
ever you can buy one of my pillows and

719
00:26:57,230 --> 00:26:53,799
get one absolutely free go to

720
00:27:04,110 --> 00:27:00,390
800-870-0305 and use promo code gcn

721
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:10,840
800-870-0305 with promo code gcn

722
00:27:18,390 --> 00:27:15,590
[Music]

723
00:27:20,770 --> 00:27:18,400
this is kurt 70 author of ufo mysteries

724
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:20,780
and you're listening to the paracast

725
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:23,840
[Music]

726
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:26,720
mark o'connell telling us how he came to

727
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:28,960
write the book the close encounters man

728
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,679
about dr heineck so you were putting

729
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:33,360
things together here

730
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:34,880
in assembling the information you're

731
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:37,039
going to use go ahead please

732
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,480
initially the book was just going to

733
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:40,720
concentrate on dr heineck's dual careers

734
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:43,919
as an astronomer and as a ufo expert

735
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:45,600
over time though as i started to learn

736
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:48,240
more about who he was as a person that

737
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:50,080
sort of opened up the story to getting

738
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:51,760
into more of his personal life his

739
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:53,440
family life

740
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:54,960
and early on

741
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,120
people had told me that dr heineck's

742
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:59,360
children probably wouldn't want to talk

743
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:01,120
to me because they just weren't

744
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:02,640
interested in talking about their dad's

745
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,120
ufo work but i thought well i don't i

746
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:07,520
don't really buy that so i went after it

747
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,559
anyway

748
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,480
and i ended up making contact with paul

749
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:12,480
heineck who's doctor the fourth of dr

750
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,320
heineck's five children

751
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:16,559
and paul was very agreeable to doing an

752
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:18,559
interview and he said my family will be

753
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,399
very supportive of this we're all easy

754
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:22,559
to get along with and we all love to be

755
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:23,600
part of this

756
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:25,279
so interviewed paul several times and

757
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:27,039
then he became an ongoing resource

758
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:28,799
anytime a question came up about their

759
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,200
family life or personal details about

760
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:33,600
his dad paul was always really receptive

761
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,399
to

762
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:35,919
my questions and always really great

763
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:38,320
about giving me extra information so he

764
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:41,360
became a huge huge asset so with paul's

765
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:43,200
input i was able to flesh out a lot of

766
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,559
dr heineck's personal life i also

767
00:28:51,029 --> 00:28:48,640
started visiting the archives at the

768
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:51,039
university of chicago where dr heineck

769
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,840
went to college in the early 1930s there

770
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,600
was a wealth of information there about

771
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,080
his early career and his education but

772
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,640
then i also spent massive amounts of

773
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:03,039
time in the basement of the deering

774
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,360
library at northwestern university in

775
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:07,200
evanston illinois which is where dr

776
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:11,120
heineck taught from 1960 to about 1984

777
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,480
and he was chair of the astronomy

778
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:14,320
department for much of that time the

779
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:16,000
material at the northwestern archives

780
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:17,840
was just a gold mine it was in those

781
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:20,240
archives that i really filled in

782
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:22,000
all the details of hynek's career as an

783
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,399
astronomer and really started to learn

784
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:26,640
how his astronomy work

785
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:28,960
meshed with his ufo work in these really

786
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:31,279
fascinating and unexpected ways

787
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:33,120
over his history

788
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:35,600
forgetting about the ufo thing did he

789
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:37,360
have any notable achievements as a

790
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:38,559
scientist

791
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:40,640
yeah he did and they're not the kind of

792
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:43,039
things that make big headlines or or get

793
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:45,919
you a a statue built in your honor but

794
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:47,919
he definitely made some significant

795
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:50,159
contributions to astronomy and really

796
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:52,799
beyond astronomy um his specialty was

797
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:55,120
studying the light emitted by stars he

798
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,320
was fascinated by examining the chemical

799
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,799
content of the light it was using

800
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:02,559
spectroscopy to study the chemical

801
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:06,000
content of starlight and because of that

802
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:07,120
he was

803
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:12,960
familiar with um the the spectrum the

804
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,279
spectrum of light and

805
00:30:19,269 --> 00:30:17,600
this became a factor in world war ii

806
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:19,279
when he was honeymooning after his

807
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:20,640
second marriage

808
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:23,600
in washington dc he got sort of snared

809
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,279
into the war effort

810
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:27,840
in 1941 and uh

811
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:30,320
put to work at johns hopkins uh working

812
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:32,880
on this the world's first smart weapon

813
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,399
something called the proximity fuse

814
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:38,240
and what this was this was a little

815
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,679
radio device that could be put in the

816
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:41,440
nose cone of a warhead

817
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,679
it would send out radio waves in advance

818
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:44,880
of the warhead

819
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:46,880
and when when the waves would bounce

820
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:48,399
back from the target

821
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:50,159
this device would cause the warhead to

822
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,559
explode not when it hit the target but

823
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:54,960
when it got within a certain proximity

824
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:57,039
to the target so this saved a whole lot

825
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:59,279
of our gunners during the war because

826
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:00,880
they no longer had to hit a bullseye

827
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:03,600
every time and unfortunately these fuses

828
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:05,840
also ended up being in the nose cones of

829
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:07,679
the two atomic bombs that we dropped on

830
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:10,320
japan and heinek was involved in the

831
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:13,360
work developing uh that technology

832
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:15,520
so it's so it became kind of interesting

833
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:16,960
to me that he's

834
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,279
his fascination with starlight and

835
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,360
unusual kinds of starlight let him down

836
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,600
these different paths it also let him

837
00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:25,440
down the path of

838
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,399
studying why stars twinkle which is one

839
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:30,720
of my favorite parts of his career

840
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:32,720
he was actually under contract to the

841
00:31:35,669 --> 00:31:33,840
air force

842
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:35,679
to determine what causes stars to

843
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,760
twinkle and to determine how you can

844
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:39,600
tell the difference between

845
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:41,760
a light in the sky that is actually

846
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:42,799
moving

847
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:45,440
or a light that is simply twinkling and

848
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:47,200
you can understand why the air force

849
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:48,799
would want to know this because it would

850
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:51,360
be very valuable for pilots

851
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,240
at night in war situations who see

852
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,320
strange lights you know out in front of

853
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,080
their aircraft

854
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,720
i'll say unfamiliar lights

855
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:02,480
it would be very valuable for a pilot to

856
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:04,399
be able to tell the difference between a

857
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,799
star that's twinkling and a an

858
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:08,399
artificially lighted object that's

859
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,799
actually in motion and could be a threat

860
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:12,559
so these were all these different facets

861
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:14,240
of research that hynek got into just

862
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:15,679
because of his fascination with the

863
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:17,519
spectrum i found all of this stuff just

864
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:19,840
endlessly fascinating

865
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:22,080
and just how did heinek become part of

866
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:25,519
the air force's ufo investigations

867
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:27,360
he liked to say that he was an innocent

868
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:28,399
bystander

869
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:29,840
he was teaching

870
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:37,360
both at the ohio state university and

871
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:40,000
at ohio westland university

872
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:44,320
at the same time in 1947 as as many of

873
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:47,360
us know that is when the modern era of

874
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:51,679
ufos began because on june 24th 1947 a

875
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:54,000
private pilot named um

876
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,399
uh kenneth arnold was flying through the

877
00:33:01,110 --> 00:32:58,559
cascade peaks in uh

878
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:01,120
the pacific northwest and he spotted a

879
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,039
trail a chain of nine silvery

880
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:07,120
semi-circular objects zipping through

881
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:09,760
the sky at an astonishing speed which he

882
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:12,799
later estimated is 1200 miles an hour

883
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,919
and that sort of triggered this

884
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:15,840
onslaught of ufo reports in the summer

885
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,799
of 1947 and they were all being sent to

886
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:20,080
the air force

887
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:24,080
with these ufo reports this was

888
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:25,760
something completely outside their

889
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:26,960
wheelhouse

890
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,880
and yet it was something they absolutely

891
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:30,880
had to deal with because

892
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:32,799
the air force's one and only job is to

893
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:35,279
keep our air is to keep our airspace

894
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,640
safe right

895
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:38,399
and now here there are these strange

896
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:39,440
objects

897
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:40,799
penetrating our airspace

898
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:42,320
indiscriminately

899
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:43,840
over and over and over basically on a

900
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:45,600
daily basis all over the country being

901
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:47,600
seen by all kinds of people and the air

902
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:49,679
force has absolutely

903
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:52,399
no clue so they're desperate to explain

904
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:54,399
these sightings away and they're trying

905
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:56,080
to explain as many of them away as they

906
00:33:59,909 --> 00:33:57,720
can as

907
00:34:01,669 --> 00:33:59,919
misidentifications of of man-made

908
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:01,679
objects such as airplanes or balloons

909
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,000
but also misidentifications of celestial

910
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:06,480
objects like comets or the planet venus

911
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,200
okay the key being here mark is that

912
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:11,200
they had no incentive to look for a real

913
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:14,399
ufo if there was one it is let's get rid

914
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:16,480
of this stuff now and let's just find

915
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:18,159
ways to do it

916
00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:20,079
absolutely let's get rid of it as

917
00:34:23,109 --> 00:34:22,000
quickly as we can

918
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:23,119
so

919
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:24,720
they discover that there's this

920
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:26,800
astronomer right up the road

921
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:29,919
who has already had top secret uh uh

922
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:32,159
security clearance so he can be put to

923
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,960
work with a minimum of red tape and so

924
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,879
they approach heinek at his university

925
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,399
and say hey have you ever heard of these

926
00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:40,720
uh flying saucer things

927
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,639
and at the time heinek just took it as a

928
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,639
joke he thought yeah that's just a fad

929
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,560
it's gonna you know it's gonna die out

930
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:49,200
pretty quickly well the air force folks

931
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,399
offer him

932
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:52,639
a contract they say we we would like to

933
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:53,599
hire you

934
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,639
to go over our stack of ufo reports and

935
00:35:00,589 --> 00:34:58,800
tell us which ones

936
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,599
in your opinion are actually

937
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:02,400
misidentifications of just plain old

938
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,079
celestial objects

939
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,000
and heineck quickly agrees because

940
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:08,560
number one it's going to be easy money

941
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:10,480
and number two he thinks he's going to

942
00:35:14,630 --> 00:35:12,400
promote good science because he thinks

943
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:14,640
the whole ufo thing is just kind of

944
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,680
an aberration um he thinks that he

945
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:19,440
thinks americans are just jumpy about

946
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:20,560
pearl harbor and they're they're

947
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:21,920
paranoid that we're going to be attacked

948
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:24,000
again and so they're just seeing things

949
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:25,839
that aren't there in the sky

950
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:28,000
so he jumps on this opportunity and he

951
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:29,599
goes through all of these initial

952
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,560
reports and he's able to he's able to

953
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:34,480
write about 80 percent of them off as

954
00:35:38,790 --> 00:35:36,320
misidentifications of perfectly normal

955
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:38,800
things most of them astronomical

956
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:39,920
objects

957
00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:41,839
and that leaves 20 percent that can't be

958
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:43,920
explained well heinek just sort of

959
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:46,400
brushes those off and he says well

960
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:48,880
given enough time and resources we could

961
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:51,920
probably explain the remaining 20

962
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,320
just as well so the 20 percent didn't

963
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:56,240
bother him at all

964
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,480
so he finishes his contract after a

965
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,640
couple months and then just returns to

966
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:02,240
academia returns to teaching his

967
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:04,000
astronomy classes and forgets all about

968
00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:05,680
the ufo problem

969
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:10,960
away and it came back into hynek's life

970
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:13,520
three to three years later

971
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:15,280
the air force came back

972
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,880
now now their study group was called

973
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:18,480
project blue book that's the one most

974
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,000
people are familiar with

975
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:23,200
and the director the project chief of

976
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:25,359
project blue book um

977
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:27,599
uh a guy named um

978
00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:30,960
edward repel captain edward urpel uh

979
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:34,320
goes to ohio state to visit with heinek

980
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:36,320
and says hey we're we're still having

981
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:37,760
problems with these ufos would you come

982
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:39,359
back on board

983
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,440
oh that could be the famous last words

984
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:43,200
but we'll get into more of that all

985
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:45,680
right mark o'connell about the close

986
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:47,440
encounters man

987
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:49,200
kurt collins is our guest co-host this

988
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:50,079
week

989
00:37:04,109 --> 00:37:03,190
thank you for listening to gcn

990
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:04,119
visit

991
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,630
neighbors i want to tell you about my

992
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,119
favorite graphics app it's the

993
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:15,520
award-winning graphic converter you know

994
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:17,920
graphic inverter is the universal genius

995
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,800
for photo editing on your mac join over

996
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:23,280
one and a half million loyal users for

997
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,480
this swiss army knife photo editing app

998
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:28,400
it gives you all you expect from a top

999
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,800
flight image editing app with tons of

1000
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:33,119
features and most important

1001
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:36,320
it's easy to use it's also far less

1002
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:38,880
expensive than that other app that you

1003
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,359
can only get by subscription you know

1004
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:43,200
the one i'm talking about

1005
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:46,320
what's more you can get 20 off with your

1006
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:48,000
order right now

1007
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:49,920
so write this down to learn about

1008
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:52,000
graphic converter

1009
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:57,680
go to www dot lemke soft dot d e slash

1010
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:59,119
gene

1011
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:00,560
let me spell that

1012
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:06,640
w w w dot l e m k e soft dot d e

1013
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:08,400
slash gene

1014
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:10,000
this is dan pillow do you have the irs

1015
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:11,839
money you can't pay are tax debts

1016
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:13,680
crippling you i've defended people from

1017
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:16,000
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

1018
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:18,079
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

1019
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:19,520
the book on irs settlement and i'm

1020
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:21,280
telling you there's no such thing as a

1021
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,960
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

1022
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:27,119
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

1023
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,640
programs there's never been a better

1024
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:31,520
time to solve your problem call 834 no

1025
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:35,359
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

1026
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:38,240
danpilla.com

1027
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:39,680
is that ellen painting her garage

1028
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:41,200
yesterday she was trimming her hedges

1029
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:42,720
what's her secret i heard she was eating

1030
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:44,240
this new super berry called the erodia

1031
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:45,920
berry romeo

1032
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:47,920
berries from superberries.com they're

1033
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:49,119
known for having one of the highest

1034
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:50,720
levels of antioxidants that helps with

1035
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:52,400
overall wellness where can we get them

1036
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:54,400
go to superberries.com

1037
00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:56,320
radio and right now we get a free

1038
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,480
smoothie recipe book with our order plus

1039
00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:00,320
we can save four dollars a checkout i

1040
00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:02,160
can't wait i've got lots of projects i

1041
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:04,240
need to get done yes you do choose

1042
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,069
we use cell phones against our heads

1043
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,240
every day but now a landmark u.s

1044
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,000
government study confirms increased

1045
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:17,920
health risks from exposure to emf

1046
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:20,000
radiation emitted from these devices the

1047
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:22,079
time to protect yourself is now the

1048
00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:24,400
solution is defender shield proudly made

1049
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,079
in the usa defender shield blocks

1050
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,560
virtually 100 percent of emf radiation

1051
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:30,240
emitted from cell phones tablets and

1052
00:39:35,230 --> 00:39:32,720
laptops buy now at defendershield.com

1053
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:35,240
use discount code defender for 10 off

1054
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:37,440
defendershield.com the worldwide leader

1055
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:40,000
in emf radiation protection

1056
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:42,160
hi this is ron paul former congressman

1057
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,560
and republican presidential candidate i

1058
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:46,240
love these summer months because this is

1059
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:48,079
when i get to enjoy the fresh fruits and

1060
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,160
vegetables that are being harvested on

1061
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,720
small farms and in our backyards we all

1062
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:54,560
look forward to garden tomatoes and corn

1063
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:56,480
on the cob don't you wish there was a

1064
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,560
better way to preserve their true tastes

1065
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:00,560
and flavors i'm here to tell you that

1066
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,040
there is a better way it's by using the

1067
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:05,599
amazing home freeze dryer from harvest

1068
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,839
right i have a harvest right freeze

1069
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,839
dryer and use it to preserve the foods i

1070
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:12,160
love strawberries apples and even

1071
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:14,400
lasagna and ice cream can stay fresh for

1072
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:17,119
25 years and the best part of my freeze

1073
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:19,599
drying is my family and i have a supply

1074
00:40:23,910 --> 00:40:21,920
of long lasting food on hand so no

1075
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:23,920
matter what may come we feel better

1076
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:26,720
prepared we love our freeze dryer to

1077
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:29,040
learn more go to harvestright.com or

1078
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:39,190
that's harvestride.com or 800-923-9591

1079
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:42,630
anytime anyplace anywhere radio remains

1080
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:44,800
the most intimate of all forms of media

1081
00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:47,040
at home at work in the car on

1082
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:49,599
smartphones over 90 percent of consumers

1083
00:40:53,589 --> 00:40:51,760
still listen to radio every week that

1084
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,599
makes choosing radio as a place to

1085
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:55,760
advertise your business one of the best

1086
00:40:59,069 --> 00:40:58,480
decisions you can make email advertise

1087
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:59,079
at

1088
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:01,359
gcnlive.com and partner up with an

1089
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,480
experienced gcn representative advertise

1090
00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:06,240
at gcnlive.com

1091
00:41:10,990 --> 00:41:16,710
[Music]

1092
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:18,550
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

1093
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:20,720
of dark skies the co-author of ad after

1094
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:22,480
disclosure and you are listening to the

1095
00:41:30,910 --> 00:41:25,839
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

1096
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:33,990
[Music]

1097
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:37,040
yes you're a professional mark o'connell

1098
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,119
thank you that's what alejandra rojas

1099
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,440
told me he said absolutely this guy

1100
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,280
knows what to do we're talking about the

1101
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:45,440
close encounters man we're talking about

1102
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:48,000
the fact that captain edward rupelt who

1103
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:50,240
was head of project blue book and he

1104
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:52,079
wrote a ufo book called the report on

1105
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:54,079
unidentified flying objects and is

1106
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:56,640
credited with inventing the term ufo

1107
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:57,920
because they want something that isn't

1108
00:42:02,309 --> 00:41:59,440
flying saucer

1109
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,319
he went and talked with dr heineck to

1110
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:04,720
get him pulled back into the ufo mess

1111
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:06,079
tell us more

1112
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:08,319
well yeah heinek had been out of the ufo

1113
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:10,000
biz for about three years and he had

1114
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,839
essentially forgotten about it he had

1115
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:13,280
assumed that it was just a fad and it

1116
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,599
would just fade away in time so out of

1117
00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:17,839
the blue edward rupelt shows up at his

1118
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:18,800
office

1119
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,319
and says hey can i ask you to look at

1120
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:22,880
this old file from from uh back when you

1121
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:24,560
worked for us before

1122
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:27,040
and that was the thomas mantell case in

1123
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:28,880
which an air national guard pilot

1124
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:31,520
crashed and died pursuing uh what was

1125
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:33,920
thought to be a spaceship at the time so

1126
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:36,160
heineken goes over his records and he

1127
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:38,160
does an amazing thing initially when

1128
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:40,160
heineken looked at that report he said

1129
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:41,920
oh yeah the pilot was obviously

1130
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:44,240
mistakenly chasing the planet venus

1131
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:46,240
that's what caused him to crash

1132
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:47,920
well three years later heineken looks

1133
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:50,160
over that same case report his own case

1134
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:52,480
notes and he says you know what i was

1135
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:53,440
wrong

1136
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:55,280
i don't think he was chasing venus well

1137
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:57,680
it turned out he was most likely chasing

1138
00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:00,240
an experimental test balloon so it still

1139
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,720
wasn't an extraterrestrial spacecraft

1140
00:43:05,829 --> 00:43:04,319
but it was different enough that

1141
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:05,839
heineken had to admit hey i had been

1142
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,760
wrong in my judgment so that was kind of

1143
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:10,400
the first in his skeptical armor

1144
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,839
was he had to admit that he had been

1145
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,680
wrong about one of the earliest cases

1146
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:15,440
but what happens is so root belt comes

1147
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:16,880
to him and says hey i'm i'm really

1148
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:18,720
impressed with your work we're still

1149
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:21,040
dealing with this ufo issue would you

1150
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:22,640
please come back and work with us again

1151
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:24,800
can we put you under contract to brought

1152
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:27,040
project blue book and at this point

1153
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:29,680
heineken is absolutely dumbfounded he's

1154
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:31,839
thinking wait a minute three years have

1155
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:32,800
passed

1156
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:35,280
and the ufo fad has not faded away in

1157
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:37,440
fact it's gotten even stronger

1158
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:40,000
and not only that but there still remain

1159
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,160
year after year 20

1160
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:44,400
this residue of 20 of the cases that

1161
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,720
can't be explained and that was when

1162
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:48,560
heinick's thinking started to change up

1163
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:50,000
until that moment he had been an

1164
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,680
absolute skeptic he thought the whole

1165
00:43:55,349 --> 00:43:53,280
thing was ridiculous

1166
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:55,359
and all of a sudden he starts thinking

1167
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:57,440
wait a minute

1168
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:59,680
maybe there is something real going on

1169
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,440
here and maybe we need to start paying

1170
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:04,000
closer attention to those 20 unexplained

1171
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,319
reports so that's kind of the big moment

1172
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:08,319
in heinek's career when he starts to

1173
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,960
change his mind it would take many many

1174
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:12,960
years for him to go through the entire

1175
00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:15,200
process of changing his mind but we know

1176
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,599
that that's where the process began

1177
00:44:22,470 --> 00:44:19,680
now thing to point out with captain

1178
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:22,480
rupelt unlike many of the people who got

1179
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:25,040
stuck with being in project blue book

1180
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:26,720
he seemed to be a pretty serious guy

1181
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:28,160
from that book

1182
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,319
he was inclined to take the subject very

1183
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:31,920
very seriously

1184
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:34,000
and i don't know if you ever looked into

1185
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:36,400
this except for one thing

1186
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:38,800
he did a revision of that book before he

1187
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:41,119
died and he died like he was in his late

1188
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:43,680
30s of a heart condition but somewhat

1189
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,040
before that

1190
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:47,599
he added three chapters to this book

1191
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,440
where he basically

1192
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:51,440
undid everything he did in the previous

1193
00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:52,720
part of the book saying he never

1194
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:55,440
believed in ufos for a minute and i

1195
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:57,119
don't know if you heard of the blowback

1196
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:58,640
at the time that maybe he was under

1197
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:00,800
pressure to do that just adding that

1198
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:04,240
aside as we go back to dr heineck yeah i

1199
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,920
tend to trust uh root belt's first

1200
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:09,839
version of the book i think that's i

1201
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:11,280
think it's the first version of the book

1202
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:12,880
that was telling the true story and i

1203
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:15,040
agree that the second version the second

1204
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:17,200
edition those revisions were caused by

1205
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:19,520
external pressure he was no longer in

1206
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:20,800
the air force but he was still under

1207
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,160
pressure from the air force to change

1208
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:24,720
his verdict i guess so yeah that's an

1209
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,000
interesting little side note to the

1210
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:28,160
whole story the thing that impresses me

1211
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:31,040
most about about captain rupelt was when

1212
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:32,480
he was brought in

1213
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:35,040
to head project blue book he instituted

1214
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:37,040
a new policy where

1215
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:40,319
anyone on his staff who exhibited any

1216
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:42,640
tendency or bias

1217
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:45,680
towards an extraterrestrial theory

1218
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,240
would immediately be transferred out but

1219
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:50,400
at the same time anybody on staff who

1220
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:53,200
exhibited any bias towards a natural

1221
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:55,520
earthly theory for ufos

1222
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:58,640
would also be transferred out root belt

1223
00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:00,560
made absolutely sure that the people on

1224
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:02,640
his staff on project blue book were as

1225
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:05,200
unbiased as they could possibly be he

1226
00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:07,680
didn't want anyone on his staff coming

1227
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:10,319
in with preconceived notions of what a

1228
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:11,359
ufo

1229
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:13,920
could be or couldn't be and that demands

1230
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:16,319
huge respect that was a very difficult

1231
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:17,680
and courageous thing

1232
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:20,000
for you know an air force functionary to

1233
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:21,760
do in that position

1234
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:23,440
well that shows i think a lot of

1235
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:25,760
intellectual honesty of course we have

1236
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:28,640
other stories about rupelt where he

1237
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:30,160
wrote something in his book about the

1238
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:31,760
maury island

1239
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:34,720
case where he called it the worst hoax

1240
00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:36,079
in history

1241
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:38,319
and he said something about

1242
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:40,640
the chicago publisher that's ray palmer

1243
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:43,119
who was the original co-founder of fate

1244
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,000
magazine that palmer was responsible for

1245
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:48,880
it and so that started a real brouhaha

1246
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:51,520
but we won't get into that okay so

1247
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,720
the 20

1248
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,920
factor

1249
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:55,119
is what

1250
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,560
led dr heineck to believe that this

1251
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:00,640
needs more attention right

1252
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:02,720
right and then a sequence of events

1253
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:05,520
immediately after that sort of cemented

1254
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:06,319
that

1255
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:08,560
very soon after he was called back to

1256
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:10,240
project blue book he was sent out on

1257
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:12,160
this clandestine mission

1258
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:14,319
to interview his fellow professional

1259
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:16,480
astronomers to find out if any of them

1260
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:18,800
believed ufos were real and if any of

1261
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,960
them had actually seen any ufos so

1262
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:22,319
heinrich spends a couple weeks

1263
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,920
journeying across the country visiting

1264
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:25,839
all these different observatories and

1265
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:27,359
chatting with all of his friends and

1266
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:29,599
colleagues in the business and in every

1267
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:32,160
conversation he sort of slyly works in

1268
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:34,319
the topic of ufos say what do you think

1269
00:47:37,829 --> 00:47:36,400
of this whole ufo business you know have

1270
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:37,839
you ever seen one do you know anyone

1271
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:40,000
who's seen one and what he finds is he

1272
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:42,640
interviews about 45 astronomers

1273
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,000
and he finds that about 10 of them

1274
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:48,240
have seen ufos and the funny thing is

1275
00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:49,760
they won't talk about it in public but

1276
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,920
when it's just one-on-one with heinek

1277
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,680
they're all very open to discussing what

1278
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,000
they've seen so that's a pretty high

1279
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,160
percentage in such a close group of

1280
00:48:01,910 --> 00:48:00,240
people who have seen a ufo i mean it

1281
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:01,920
makes sense with astronomers right

1282
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:03,920
they're always looking up at the sky

1283
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,319
and they know exactly what belongs in

1284
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,480
the sky and exactly what does not belong

1285
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:09,599
in the sky

1286
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:11,200
so those numbers were were pretty

1287
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:12,319
interesting

1288
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:13,760
and they were also very convincing to

1289
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:16,640
heinek that uh okay maybe it is okay to

1290
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:19,520
talk openly about ufos his thinking had

1291
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:22,240
changed about ufos but he hadn't quite

1292
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:24,559
gone public with his thinking so being

1293
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:26,319
able to survey these astronomers on the

1294
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,240
sly sort of gave him some intellectual

1295
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,319
cover you know once he knew that there

1296
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:31,920
was a significant percentage of his

1297
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,680
colleagues who had seen these things he

1298
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,280
felt more comfortable talking about them

1299
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,440
in public himself so that was an

1300
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:39,359
additional sort of inching forward

1301
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,440
movement for heineck but then the next

1302
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:43,680
thing that happened was he was actually

1303
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:46,640
sent out uh at the time rupelt's time

1304
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:48,960
with blue book came to an end he

1305
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:51,119
recommended that heinrich be sent out to

1306
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:53,599
investigate a a sighting in the field

1307
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:55,040
now this was a first for heineck up

1308
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:57,599
until this point his only connection

1309
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:00,640
with these ufo reports had been you know

1310
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:03,040
reading through stacks of papers on his

1311
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:03,920
desk

1312
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:05,520
and all of a sudden this it didn't

1313
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:08,000
happen until 1953 but heinek gets sent

1314
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:10,240
out to south dakota and north dakota to

1315
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:11,839
investigate this

1316
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:13,920
very strange and

1317
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:15,839
difficult to explain sighting that

1318
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:18,240
involved a whole lot of air force uh

1319
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:19,200
people

1320
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:21,920
with with very good reputations so

1321
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,599
heineken sent out in the field and so

1322
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:25,520
for the first time ever

1323
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:28,079
he's actually interfacing with ufo

1324
00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:30,000
witnesses he's actually hearing their

1325
00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:31,839
stories firsthand so he's able to hear

1326
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:34,079
the emotion in their voices he's able to

1327
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:35,359
read their body language and their

1328
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:37,520
facial expressions you know so suddenly

1329
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:40,400
heineken is aware of the human factor in

1330
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:42,000
a ufo case

1331
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:44,160
and that changes his thinking as well he

1332
00:49:47,349 --> 00:49:45,839
starts realizing that there's so much

1333
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,359
more to these cases than what you'll

1334
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,040
just have written down on a on a piece

1335
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:51,280
of paper in a project blue book file

1336
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:52,880
when you actually talk to the people

1337
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:55,520
involved you learn so much more about

1338
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:58,400
what the experience was really like and

1339
00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:00,160
in this case in south dakota and north

1340
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,200
dakota it went both ways he was able to

1341
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,280
form much clearer opinions of which

1342
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:07,440
witnesses were reliable and which

1343
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:09,760
witnesses he thought weren't reliable

1344
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:11,280
again because he was able to talk to

1345
00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:13,440
them face to face and get the real meat

1346
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,319
of the story in person so those were the

1347
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,160
things that really started moving heinek

1348
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:20,160
along this this this path where he

1349
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:23,280
started to reconsider his position uh

1350
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:25,359
that all all ufos could be explained

1351
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:27,920
away as natural events

1352
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:29,520
well i think some of the things you've

1353
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:31,200
mentioned there are really important and

1354
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:32,720
a lot of people are in the impression

1355
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:35,839
that heinek's shift to um

1356
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:38,960
away from skepticism began in the 60s

1357
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:41,520
but i had a quote here this is in in

1358
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:44,160
preparing his notes for um

1359
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:46,160
edward rupelt had kind of done profiles

1360
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:48,559
on some of the people and he said dr

1361
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:50,400
heineck has been a consultant astronomer

1362
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:52,720
to project sign grudge and blue book i

1363
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:55,040
won't say he's a believer but he's darn

1364
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,119
interested he's devoted a great deal of

1365
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:59,920
his valuable time to the project so

1366
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,760
you know he he definitely

1367
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:03,119
was um

1368
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:05,680
expressing his respect for a heineken

1369
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:08,720
scientific curiosity and then you know

1370
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,680
this just

1371
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:11,280
goes into what you were saying that this

1372
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,079
was this was an uh evolving

1373
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:16,319
uh position behind it based on what he

1374
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,760
was experiencing

1375
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:19,440
yeah i think that's i think that's the

1376
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:21,040
best way to describe it exactly an

1377
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:22,880
evolving position

1378
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:25,119
we'll have more of this

1379
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:28,160
more of dr heineck's

1380
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:31,359
long period of transition from

1381
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:34,000
ufo skeptic to accepting that something

1382
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:34,880
real

1383
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:36,400
is going on in a moment with mark

1384
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:38,480
o'connell and gene steinberg and kurt

1385
00:51:48,829 --> 00:51:40,079
collins

1386
00:51:54,349 --> 00:51:53,430
paracast you are listening to gcn

1387
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:54,359
visit

1388
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:55,810
gcnlive.com today

1389
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:58,720
[Music]

1390
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,359
ray perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1391
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:03,040
out from the gulf war

1392
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:05,599
lives tortured by relentless perplexing

1393
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:06,800
nightmares

1394
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:10,800
space and of a mysterious woman

1395
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:12,880
suffering in agony for her devastated

1396
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:13,839
world

1397
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:16,400
a woman not yet born calling across

1398
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:19,280
centuries to him

1399
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,160
then

1400
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:22,559
a coincidence leads him to his destiny

1401
00:52:27,990 --> 00:52:25,599
his chance to alter the universe attack

1402
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:28,000
attack of the rock the former fiction

1403
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:30,000
editor for star wars and indiana jones

1404
00:52:34,549 --> 00:52:32,319
robert simpson writes the soul of the

1405
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:34,559
novel attack of the rockoids lies in its

1406
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:36,000
heart and passion for building a

1407
00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:38,000
convincing tale of a love that spans a

1408
00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:40,720
galaxy a thrilling story attack

1409
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:43,520
of the rockaway is available now read a

1410
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:45,040
sample chapter and get a special

1411
00:52:47,870 --> 00:52:46,880
discount off of the cover price at our

1412
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:47,880
website

1413
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:52,319
rockoids.com that's r-o-c-k-o-i-d-s

1414
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:55,440
dot com attack attack of the rockaways a

1415
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:57,200
novel in the grand science fiction

1416
00:53:01,349 --> 00:53:00,160
tradition

1417
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:01,359
are you looking to become more

1418
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:02,960
self-sufficient then you need to have

1419
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:05,599
your own energy source the solar emp

1420
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:07,200
harden generator is automatic

1421
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:08,640
maintenance free and reduces your

1422
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:10,480
monthly electric bill you can also take

1423
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:12,319
it off grid when you go camping contact

1424
00:53:16,829 --> 00:53:14,079
portablesolarllc.com

1425
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:16,839
or call for details at

1426
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,599
972-575-8875 today portable solar llc

1427
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,119
gives you everything you need to start

1428
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:23,440
using solar energy in less than one hour

1429
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:25,599
seoul arc emp hardened solar generator

1430
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:27,359
energy insurance for your family or

1431
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:31,280
business call portable solar llc today

1432
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:32,960
if there's a toxic chemical biological

1433
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,720
gas smoke emergency while traveling at

1434
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:36,720
home or on your job are you protected

1435
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:38,800
are you prepared there are over 400 000

1436
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:41,280
fires in the usa every year up to 85 of

1437
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:42,800
all deaths on a fire are due to smoke

1438
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,720
inhalation three minutes without air and

1439
00:53:49,109 --> 00:53:47,280
we as humans will die be prepared and

1440
00:53:50,790 --> 00:53:49,119
escape safely with our safe escape smoke

1441
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,800
hoods giving you up to 60 minutes of

1442
00:53:54,190 --> 00:53:52,800
breathable air protection order yours

1443
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:54,200
online at

1444
00:54:02,610 --> 00:53:57,520
ase.safety.com that's ase.safety.com

1445
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:03,440
[Applause]

1446
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:04,770
[Music]

1447
00:54:10,630 --> 00:54:07,359
[Applause]

1448
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:10,640
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1449
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:14,240
standard of paranormal radio

1450
00:54:18,830 --> 00:54:15,520
and now

1451
00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:18,840
here's gene steinberg

1452
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,069
before we go on i want to mention that

1453
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:26,160
we have a special feature of the show a

1454
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:28,800
second radio show called after the power

1455
00:54:31,270 --> 00:54:29,680
cast

1456
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:31,280
and the only way for you to hear that

1457
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:32,960
show is to become a member of the power

1458
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:34,160
cast plus

1459
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:36,480
where we let you download that a

1460
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:38,079
commercial free version of this show

1461
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:39,040
with

1462
00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:41,760
better quality audio and videos and more

1463
00:54:44,790 --> 00:54:42,880
goodies

1464
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:44,800
to find out more about the powercast

1465
00:54:48,030 --> 00:54:45,760
plus

1466
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:48,040
check out

1467
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:49,599
plus.thepowercast.com that's

1468
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:51,760
plus.powercast.com

1469
00:54:56,790 --> 00:54:54,960
start just 1.49 a week and get this

1470
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:56,800
we have a new youtube channel the

1471
00:55:01,829 --> 00:54:59,520
official powercast channel on youtube

1472
00:55:04,790 --> 00:55:01,839
and i put up there a sampler for

1473
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:04,800
powercast plus our 10th anniversary show

1474
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:06,800
both the regular show and after the

1475
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:09,599
power cast so we're looking here

1476
00:55:12,790 --> 00:55:10,559
at

1477
00:55:14,790 --> 00:55:12,800
dr j allen heineck with the author of

1478
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:14,800
close encounters man

1479
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:16,559
mark o'connell

1480
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:18,559
and now he's

1481
00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:20,400
sucked back in

1482
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:23,760
to the ufo mess by edward rupelt

1483
00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:26,720
and he's going now to talk to witnesses

1484
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:29,119
he's out there as a basically a field

1485
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:31,440
investigator did he do this alone or did

1486
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:32,640
he have help

1487
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:35,280
well it all depended most of the time he

1488
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:37,280
would do it alone because project blue

1489
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:39,200
book's budget was so tight

1490
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:41,200
it was a rare occurrence when he could

1491
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:43,440
get somebody to come with him for an

1492
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:45,200
investigation

1493
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,760
sometimes when he did have backup it was

1494
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:49,680
it was um you know a sergeant first

1495
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:51,680
class it was sort of a low-level

1496
00:55:56,230 --> 00:55:53,680
low-level functionary on the blue book

1497
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:56,240
squad who would get sent along to

1498
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:58,880
basically serve as dr heineck chauffeur

1499
00:56:01,910 --> 00:56:00,480
they were he would get the driver in the

1500
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:01,920
jeep and that's how he would get around

1501
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:03,520
when he was investigating these cases a

1502
00:56:07,109 --> 00:56:05,359
lot of the time but yeah most of the

1503
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:07,119
time when he was in the field he was on

1504
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:09,440
his own that changed later in the 1960s

1505
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:10,960
when he picked up some new allies at

1506
00:56:14,789 --> 00:56:12,720
northwestern university but i'm sure

1507
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:14,799
we'll get to that story in a bit

1508
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:16,559
you mentioned that there wasn't much

1509
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:18,160
staff but i think a lot of people don't

1510
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:20,319
realize how small project blue book

1511
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:22,480
actually was i mean it was it was

1512
00:56:26,630 --> 00:56:24,480
basically uh whoever's in charge and a

1513
00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:26,640
couple of secretaries and whoever they

1514
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:29,119
could recruit i mean it wasn't a large

1515
00:56:33,109 --> 00:56:31,119
investigation it was basically one tiny

1516
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:33,119
little office and and that about the

1517
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:35,920
size of it yeah that's true i mean there

1518
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,160
there was this one moment in time this

1519
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:40,319
one sort of snapshot moment

1520
00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:42,640
at which

1521
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:44,559
project blue books budget was actually

1522
00:56:48,549 --> 00:56:46,079
increased

1523
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:48,559
and edward rupelt was able to was able

1524
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:51,280
to bring more investigators on staff

1525
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:53,119
that lasted for a couple years they

1526
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:55,040
actually beefed up project blue book for

1527
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,240
a while

1528
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:58,640
but their motives for doing that are

1529
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:01,440
kind of surprising the air force wanted

1530
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:04,160
project blue book to have more resources

1531
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:05,760
because they wanted blue book to be able

1532
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:08,880
to investigate and then debunk more ufo

1533
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,119
cases so it wasn't that they wanted

1534
00:57:15,270 --> 00:57:13,200
rupilt to get at the truth it was that

1535
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,280
they wanted rupelt to be able to do a

1536
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:17,440
bit better job of sweeping the ufo

1537
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:19,440
problem under the rug which i find very

1538
00:57:24,950 --> 00:57:22,559
comical and very pathetic what did you

1539
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,960
expect from the air force i think after

1540
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:26,640
rupelt left though

1541
00:57:30,630 --> 00:57:28,640
it seemed as if project blue book had

1542
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,640
fewer resources am i

1543
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,559
wrong there i think that's absolutely

1544
00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:34,720
true and and and a lot of that was

1545
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:36,400
simply because

1546
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:38,079
all the new project chiefs and the

1547
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:40,079
project chiefs were rotated in and out

1548
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:41,520
every couple of years there was so

1549
00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:43,920
little consistency but every new project

1550
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:47,040
chief carried with him his own biases

1551
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:50,079
and his own objectives for what to do

1552
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:51,760
with project blue book and they weren't

1553
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:54,480
always they weren't always positive some

1554
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:56,640
of the project chiefs just wanted to be

1555
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:58,400
anywhere but the project blue book

1556
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:00,160
offices some of them were just killing

1557
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:02,400
time until they could retire

1558
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:03,920
and then and then at the end of the line

1559
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:06,240
you get hector quintanilla who was just

1560
00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:09,520
absolutely hostile to ufos from day one

1561
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:12,480
so yeah the the operation was scaled

1562
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:14,799
back over time the budgets got smaller

1563
00:58:17,430 --> 00:58:16,480
and smaller and a lot of that was simply

1564
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:17,440
because

1565
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:23,119
hostility to the project

1566
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:24,799
and many times that hostility was coming

1567
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:27,200
directly from the project chief how did

1568
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:29,359
that impact the association with heineck

1569
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:32,000
did he eventually quit or what well for

1570
00:58:36,069 --> 00:58:34,480
a long time heineck stuck with it for a

1571
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:36,079
lot longer than anybody thought he

1572
00:58:39,510 --> 00:58:37,280
should have

1573
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:39,520
and i think he had good reasons for it

1574
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:41,200
but he would sort of make things work

1575
00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:43,119
his own way there was there was a time

1576
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:45,599
in there when resources were slim

1577
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:48,000
when he and his

1578
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:50,160
teaching assistant at ohio state jenny

1579
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,559
zeidman who also assisted him with his

1580
00:58:56,789 --> 00:58:54,240
blue book work

1581
00:58:58,230 --> 00:58:56,799
they would often get

1582
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:58,240
ufo cases

1583
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:00,160
reports sent directly to them people

1584
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:02,000
would contact heinek directly at the

1585
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:04,400
university and report a ufo case

1586
00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,319
and heineke would say okay this is great

1587
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:08,400
i'd really love to investigate it

1588
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,480
but if i do it on my own the air force

1589
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:12,319
won't won't pay me for it so what i'd

1590
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:14,960
like you to do is send this report to

1591
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:17,200
hector keatonia at wright-patterson air

1592
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:19,359
force base and then they'll pay me to

1593
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:21,599
investigate it and sometimes that worked

1594
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:23,280
and sometimes it didn't but honey was

1595
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:24,960
very crafty at coming up with ways to

1596
00:59:29,030 --> 00:59:26,960
sort of circumvent the restrictions that

1597
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:29,040
were placed on him in project blue book

1598
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:32,319
so did he take that gig as a way to help

1599
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:34,079
feed his family because

1600
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:36,319
academics don't make a lot of money well

1601
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:37,760
that was definitely part of it i mean

1602
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:39,280
when i talked to paul heineck about it

1603
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,520
he he said yeah as far as we knew it was

1604
00:59:44,789 --> 00:59:42,960
just you know especially in the early

1605
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:44,799
years it was really just an extra

1606
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,200
paycheck to him but you know he as he

1607
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:49,200
was drawn more into it over the years

1608
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:51,200
you know it became became far more than

1609
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:52,960
just a paycheck to him one of the

1610
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,200
interesting aspects of it was

1611
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:57,520
he knew that if he ever quit project

1612
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:58,559
blue book

1613
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:00,799
then he would lose access to the

1614
01:00:05,109 --> 01:00:03,680
treasure trove of ufo case reports in

1615
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:05,119
the project blue book files at

1616
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:07,359
wright-patterson air force base and he

1617
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:09,440
did not want to lose that access so

1618
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:12,079
because of that he was willing to put up

1619
01:00:16,150 --> 01:00:14,319
with a long series of absolutely

1620
01:00:18,309 --> 01:00:16,160
disagreeable bosses

1621
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:18,319
and absolutely intolerable working

1622
01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:20,400
conditions and restrictions

1623
01:00:23,430 --> 01:00:21,839
he was willing to put up with all of

1624
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,440
that just so he could have continued

1625
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:25,280
access to the blue book files now what

1626
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:28,480
he did was over time copies of those

1627
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:29,920
blue book files would have a way of

1628
01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:32,720
migrating back to heinek's home office

1629
01:00:37,589 --> 01:00:34,960
or his office at northwestern university

1630
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:37,599
so by the time blue book you know drew

1631
01:00:42,870 --> 01:00:40,480
to a close in 1969 heineken done a

1632
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:42,880
pretty good job of not all the files but

1633
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,480
those twenty percent of the most

1634
01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:46,720
interesting files heineken did a pretty

1635
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,400
good job of making sure that he had

1636
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:51,119
copies of those in his own possession

1637
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:53,119
was there a problem with doing that or

1638
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:55,520
his access allowed it

1639
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:57,760
uh i've never come across any indication

1640
01:01:01,109 --> 01:00:59,359
that there was any problem with it in

1641
01:01:02,789 --> 01:01:01,119
fact like it sort of seems people

1642
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:02,799
treated it as kind of a joke like well

1643
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:04,720
of course he's making copies of these

1644
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:07,599
files it wasn't until the very very last

1645
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:10,000
days of blue book that hector keaton has

1646
01:01:13,910 --> 01:01:12,160
seemed to get wise to this and he

1647
01:01:16,470 --> 01:01:13,920
started putting restrictions on heineken

1648
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:16,480
he no longer had access to the files

1649
01:01:20,069 --> 01:01:18,079
and he no longer had access to the

1650
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:20,079
office xerox machine so he couldn't make

1651
01:01:24,710 --> 01:01:22,720
copies of anything so eventually

1652
01:01:26,470 --> 01:01:24,720
eventually keatonia got wise to it and

1653
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:26,480
put a stop to it but heinek seemed to

1654
01:01:28,549 --> 01:01:27,760
have gotten away with it for quite a

1655
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:28,559
while

1656
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:30,799
okay he obviously had a long term plan

1657
01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:31,760
here though

1658
01:01:37,430 --> 01:01:34,319
if he just took this for a paycheck

1659
01:01:40,230 --> 01:01:37,440
and the major goal was to

1660
01:01:42,390 --> 01:01:40,240
explain away the ufos why did he keep

1661
01:01:45,829 --> 01:01:42,400
all this information

1662
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:45,839
well he always always hoped and believed

1663
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:48,640
that there would come a day when

1664
01:01:53,430 --> 01:01:50,960
there would be a

1665
01:01:56,789 --> 01:01:53,440
scientifically based

1666
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:56,799
group or institution that would be

1667
01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:58,720
completely dedicated to the study of the

1668
01:02:01,990 --> 01:02:00,240
ufo phenomena

1669
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:02,000
and so he felt that it was imperative

1670
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:04,720
for him to

1671
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:07,359
preserve as much data as many of the

1672
01:02:10,870 --> 01:02:09,440
records as he possibly could on his own

1673
01:02:11,990 --> 01:02:10,880
because you know the air force couldn't

1674
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:12,000
be trusted

1675
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:14,000
uh you know not the air force didn't

1676
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:15,440
understand the phenomenon they didn't

1677
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:17,119
care about the phenomena they certainly

1678
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:18,400
weren't going to hang on to these

1679
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:20,640
records if they didn't have to

1680
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:22,880
so you know i think heineken was always

1681
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:24,400
playing the long game

1682
01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:26,799
um he always felt that at some point or

1683
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,880
another there is going to be

1684
01:02:32,950 --> 01:02:31,200
an institution i don't i don't know if

1685
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:32,960
he necessarily foresaw that he was be

1686
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:34,720
the one who had found it

1687
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:36,880
but he always had faith that somewhere

1688
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:39,119
along the line this massive study would

1689
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:40,799
take place and of course it did then in

1690
01:02:44,069 --> 01:02:42,480
the colorado study

1691
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:44,079
at the time heineck thought well this is

1692
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:45,839
what i've been waiting for for 15 years

1693
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:47,359
this is what's going to finally crack

1694
01:02:51,829 --> 01:02:50,079
the case as far as the ufos go so i

1695
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:51,839
think that was just thinking all along

1696
01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:54,000
maintain these records because they are

1697
01:02:58,630 --> 01:02:56,160
going to be valuable at some point and

1698
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,640
at some point there's going to be um a

1699
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,480
really credible scientific team that's

1700
01:03:05,670 --> 01:03:03,359
going to be able to take a look at these

1701
01:03:07,589 --> 01:03:05,680
now the most legendary story we hear

1702
01:03:09,670 --> 01:03:07,599
about dr heineck

1703
01:03:11,270 --> 01:03:09,680
is swankess

1704
01:03:13,510 --> 01:03:11,280
and i want to ask you about that how

1705
01:03:16,069 --> 01:03:13,520
that came about in just a moment

1706
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:16,079
because it's fascinating how some people

1707
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:17,680
get sucked into things that they didn't

1708
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:19,520
entirely expect

1709
01:03:22,789 --> 01:03:20,559
again

1710
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:22,799
the author mark o'connell the book the

1711
01:03:29,190 --> 01:03:26,079
close encounters man how one man made

1712
01:03:31,430 --> 01:03:29,200
the world believe in ufos and i'm also

1713
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:31,440
going to ask how

1714
01:03:36,549 --> 01:03:33,680
he came to be involved

1715
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:36,559
in a major motion picture

1716
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:39,440
even getting a very very famous cameo

1717
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:42,160
part that we all remember and i think

1718
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:45,359
the kind of that part emphasized this

1719
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:46,400
character

1720
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:48,160
kurt cohen's our co-host mark

1721
01:03:58,309 --> 01:03:50,319
o'connell's our guest i'm gene steinberg

1722
01:04:02,630 --> 01:04:00,309
attack of the rockoids has been well

1723
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:02,640
received by critics and readers alike

1724
01:04:05,670 --> 01:04:04,240
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

1725
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:05,680
never forget

1726
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:07,599
a former u s military intelligence

1727
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:10,079
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1728
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:12,640
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1729
01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:14,960
help after a terrible battle in outer

1730
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:16,079
space

1731
01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:18,240
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1732
01:04:22,870 --> 01:04:20,160
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1733
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:22,880
with a woman whose far away planet is

1734
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:25,359
intent on destroying the earth

1735
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:27,839
and now the gripping tale continues in

1736
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,319
the coming of the protectors it's the

1737
01:04:35,029 --> 01:04:32,880
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

1738
01:04:37,349 --> 01:04:35,039
galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

1739
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:37,359
hapless heroes against powerful

1740
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:39,599
fanatical enemies that threaten the

1741
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:41,520
lives of freedom-loving beings

1742
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:42,640
everywhere

1743
01:04:48,309 --> 01:04:45,359
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

1744
01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:48,319
the protectors classic science fiction

1745
01:04:52,829 --> 01:04:50,799
at its best available now

1746
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:52,839
for more details visit

1747
01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:57,119
rockoids.com that's r o c k o i d s dot

1748
01:05:01,190 --> 01:04:59,520
com hello i'm mike lindell the inventor

1749
01:05:03,190 --> 01:05:01,200
of my pillow and like all of you out

1750
01:05:05,029 --> 01:05:03,200
there i had problems sleeping pillows

1751
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:05,039
would go flat i would flip-flop all

1752
01:05:08,390 --> 01:05:06,720
night long i would wake up with a sore

1753
01:05:10,069 --> 01:05:08,400
neck maybe a headache or feel like i

1754
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:10,079
needed a nap even though i slept eight

1755
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:12,160
hours when i invented my pillow i wanted

1756
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:13,839
it to where you can move the patented

1757
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:16,000
fill to give you the exact support you

1758
01:05:19,910 --> 01:05:17,839
need as an individual regardless of

1759
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:19,920
sleep position my pillow will get you

1760
01:05:23,589 --> 01:05:21,839
into that deep rem sleep faster and you

1761
01:05:25,349 --> 01:05:23,599
will stay there longer it's not about

1762
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,359
how much time we spend in bed it's about

1763
01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:27,599
how much of that quality sleep we get i

1764
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:29,280
do all of my own manufacturing right

1765
01:05:33,029 --> 01:05:30,960
here in the united states i have a 10

1766
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:33,039
year warranty you can wash and dry my

1767
01:05:36,789 --> 01:05:34,799
pillow and i give you a 60 day money

1768
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:36,799
money-back guarantee so you have nothing

1769
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:39,119
to lose and here's my best offer ever

1770
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:40,720
you can buy one of my pillows and get

1771
01:05:47,029 --> 01:05:43,520
one absolutely free go to mypillow.com

1772
01:05:52,750 --> 01:05:49,549
and use promo code gcn that's

1773
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:52,760
mypillow.com or

1774
01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:02,390
lifetime grace 100 grass-fed beef has

1775
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:04,000
the health benefits you seek when

1776
01:06:07,510 --> 01:06:05,760
compared to conventional beef it offers

1777
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:07,520
good fats while virtually eliminating

1778
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:09,520
the bad that's the result of cattle who

1779
01:06:13,990 --> 01:06:11,520
never eat grain ever rich in

1780
01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:14,000
antioxidants including vitamin e c beta

1781
01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:16,640
carotene and cla no artificial hormones

1782
01:06:21,029 --> 01:06:18,640
antibiotics or other drugs for all our

1783
01:06:23,750 --> 01:06:21,039
fresh non-cooked products with only 100

1784
01:06:25,829 --> 01:06:23,760
grass-fed beef go to midasresources.com

1785
01:06:28,230 --> 01:06:25,839
use voucher code gcn to get 30 off your

1786
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:28,240
order midasresources.com or find us on

1787
01:06:31,589 --> 01:06:29,520
facebook

1788
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:31,599
have you racked up more than ten

1789
01:06:35,990 --> 01:06:33,760
thousand dollars in credit card debt are

1790
01:06:38,150 --> 01:06:36,000
you barely getting by making minimum

1791
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:38,160
payments you should know the credit card

1792
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:40,079
companies are tricking you into thinking

1793
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:42,319
there's no way out credit card companies

1794
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:43,920
would rather you didn't know that there

1795
01:06:48,630 --> 01:06:46,559
are ways you can become debt free and

1796
01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:48,640
you don't have to pay the entire amount

1797
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:50,720
you owe there are debt relief programs

1798
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:52,240
that help people like you escape

1799
01:06:56,710 --> 01:06:54,640
overwhelming credit card debt national

1800
01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:56,720
debt relief has helped tens of thousands

1801
01:07:01,589 --> 01:06:58,799
of people just like you reduce more than

1802
01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:01,599
500 million dollars of debt national

1803
01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:03,359
debt relief has helped so many people

1804
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:04,960
they're a plus rated by the better

1805
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:07,039
business bureau you don't have to

1806
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:09,119
declare bankruptcy or take out a

1807
01:07:13,589 --> 01:07:11,520
consolidation loan you have the right to

1808
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:13,599
settle your debt for a mere fraction of

1809
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:16,000
what you owe reduce a large portion of

1810
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:18,720
your debt now call national debt relief

1811
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,190
800-314-7417

1812
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:29,670
that's 800 314-74

1813
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:31,109
ralph remember when you said you were

1814
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:32,480
going to start paying more attention to

1815
01:07:35,910 --> 01:07:33,920
your health and now you're eating potato

1816
01:07:37,589 --> 01:07:35,920
chips just a few a few okay but you

1817
01:07:39,870 --> 01:07:37,599
should be eating super berries aronia

1818
01:07:41,589 --> 01:07:39,880
berries aroni what aronia berries from

1819
01:07:43,029 --> 01:07:41,599
superberries.com they're known for

1820
01:07:44,710 --> 01:07:43,039
having one of the highest levels of

1821
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:44,720
antioxidants that helps with overall

1822
01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:47,440
wellness go to superberries.com radio

1823
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:49,039
and right now we get a free smoothie

1824
01:07:52,630 --> 01:07:50,880
recipe book with our order plus we can

1825
01:07:54,390 --> 01:07:52,640
save four dollars at checkout wow look

1826
01:07:56,789 --> 01:07:54,400
at all the benefits of these berries i

1827
01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:56,799
know ralph i know choose health eat

1828
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:03,910
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1829
01:08:08,829 --> 01:08:06,400
comment or question about the paracast

1830
01:08:11,950 --> 01:08:08,839
send it to news at

1831
01:08:14,069 --> 01:08:11,960
theparacast.com that's news at

1832
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:14,079
theparecast.com and don't forget to

1833
01:08:22,229 --> 01:08:16,319
visit our famous paracast community

1834
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:23,189
okay

1835
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:25,839
the story of the swamp cast this came

1836
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:26,719
ahead

1837
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:28,719
of those congressional hearings

1838
01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:30,159
so tell us more

1839
01:08:35,669 --> 01:08:33,359
well it's march 1966

1840
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:35,679
the american public is

1841
01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:38,640
crazy about ufos and the reason is

1842
01:08:43,349 --> 01:08:40,719
because john fuller

1843
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:43,359
is writing a book called incident at

1844
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:45,839
exeter which became a huge bestseller

1845
01:08:49,189 --> 01:08:47,279
and little excerpts of the book were

1846
01:08:50,950 --> 01:08:49,199
being published in national magazines

1847
01:08:52,550 --> 01:08:50,960
before it went to publication this is

1848
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:52,560
all happening in the winter and spring

1849
01:08:58,870 --> 01:08:56,080
of 1966 so the public is just fascinated

1850
01:09:01,590 --> 01:08:58,880
with ufo reports at this point and they

1851
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:01,600
are primed the american public is primed

1852
01:09:06,630 --> 01:09:05,040
for a huge ufo spectacle to take place

1853
01:09:09,910 --> 01:09:06,640
and then it did

1854
01:09:11,749 --> 01:09:09,920
on a couple of nights in march of 1966

1855
01:09:14,149 --> 01:09:11,759
in these small towns in southeastern

1856
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:14,159
michigan first of all a farmer in his

1857
01:09:17,189 --> 01:09:15,199
family

1858
01:09:18,789 --> 01:09:17,199
saw some strange lights descending into

1859
01:09:21,669 --> 01:09:18,799
the swamp behind their house and

1860
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:21,679
behaving rather oddly for a couple hours

1861
01:09:26,470 --> 01:09:23,440
and then the very next night

1862
01:09:28,950 --> 01:09:26,480
87 residents of a women's dorm at

1863
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:28,960
hillsdale college in hillsdale michigan

1864
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:30,960
saw something very similar they also saw

1865
01:09:35,030 --> 01:09:32,560
floating lights

1866
01:09:37,189 --> 01:09:35,040
in the arboretum outside the windows of

1867
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,199
their dormitory well

1868
01:09:40,950 --> 01:09:39,600
both of these cases become national

1869
01:09:42,309 --> 01:09:40,960
sensations

1870
01:09:43,829 --> 01:09:42,319
and

1871
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,839
project blue book

1872
01:09:47,669 --> 01:09:45,520
at first hector keatonia does not want

1873
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:47,679
to have anything to do with the michigan

1874
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:49,520
cases but he gets pressured into sending

1875
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:51,279
heinek and this is the point where

1876
01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:52,960
heineken could have had colleagues with

1877
01:09:56,950 --> 01:09:54,719
him because by this time he had his two

1878
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:56,960
partners and buddies at northwestern

1879
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:58,640
university jacques valle and william

1880
01:10:01,590 --> 01:09:59,600
powers

1881
01:10:03,990 --> 01:10:01,600
and he made the decision not to bring

1882
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:04,000
them along which was a fateful decision

1883
01:10:07,990 --> 01:10:05,920
and i think he kind of regretted that

1884
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:08,000
because when he arrived in michigan

1885
01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:10,320
it was just a zoo the police officers

1886
01:10:13,510 --> 01:10:12,320
couldn't really offer heinek any

1887
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:13,520
protection

1888
01:10:16,870 --> 01:10:15,120
to speak of because they were part of

1889
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:16,880
the story too because the policemen in

1890
01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:18,719
the area had been citing strange things

1891
01:10:22,630 --> 01:10:20,400
in the sky all week

1892
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:22,640
so heineken arrives at this absolutely

1893
01:10:27,270 --> 01:10:24,960
crazy scene in southeastern michigan

1894
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:27,280
this farm where these lights were seen

1895
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:29,280
and he's doing his best to investigate

1896
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:31,520
but it's just a mess because

1897
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:33,760
there are so many reporters there and

1898
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,760
and heinek barely gets a chance to

1899
01:10:38,790 --> 01:10:37,840
actually talk to the witnesses face to

1900
01:10:41,350 --> 01:10:38,800
face

1901
01:10:42,709 --> 01:10:41,360
so heinek never really feels that he's

1902
01:10:45,270 --> 01:10:42,719
able to get

1903
01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:45,280
really good research data from this

1904
01:10:49,669 --> 01:10:47,920
event well then he goes to the to

1905
01:10:51,669 --> 01:10:49,679
hillsdale college to visit the the

1906
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:51,679
women's dormitory well

1907
01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:54,080
of the 87 witnesses the dorm house

1908
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:56,400
mother only allows heinek to talk to two

1909
01:10:59,030 --> 01:10:57,199
of them

1910
01:11:01,110 --> 01:10:59,040
this is also fateful

1911
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:01,120
because instead of having 87 witnesses

1912
01:11:05,830 --> 01:11:02,880
he's only got two

1913
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:05,840
and the two women who he talks to

1914
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:08,159
were not among those who said they saw

1915
01:11:12,470 --> 01:11:09,520
this thing swoop down from out of the

1916
01:11:14,470 --> 01:11:12,480
sky when they first saw it it was

1917
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,480
lights down in the arboretum that were

1918
01:11:17,110 --> 01:11:16,000
sort of bobbing around

1919
01:11:18,870 --> 01:11:17,120
well

1920
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:18,880
another witness at this second sighting

1921
01:11:24,630 --> 01:11:21,280
was bud van horn who was the local civil

1922
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,640
defense agent and bud van horn explains

1923
01:11:27,910 --> 01:11:26,560
to heinek he had also seen these things

1924
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:27,920
from the dormitory windows because they

1925
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:30,239
had called him in uh to help them figure

1926
01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:32,640
out the mystery and he tells heinek you

1927
01:11:36,470 --> 01:11:34,080
know when i first saw those lights

1928
01:11:38,950 --> 01:11:36,480
floating out in the arboretum i thought

1929
01:11:41,510 --> 01:11:38,960
they were marsh gas so

1930
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:41,520
blood van horn planted the swamp gas

1931
01:11:45,669 --> 01:11:43,760
idea in hynek's mind

1932
01:11:47,910 --> 01:11:45,679
the day before the infamous michigan

1933
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:47,920
press conference well in my research i

1934
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:49,360
found and i wasn't able to include all

1935
01:11:52,790 --> 01:11:50,800
of this in the book unfortunately

1936
01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:52,800
because of length issues

1937
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:54,239
but over the course of the three days

1938
01:11:58,149 --> 01:11:55,600
that heineken was in michigan

1939
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:58,159
investigating these sightings

1940
01:12:04,310 --> 01:12:01,120
as many as six different people

1941
01:12:06,550 --> 01:12:04,320
floated the idea of swamp gas past hynek

1942
01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:06,560
and said you know it could have been

1943
01:12:09,270 --> 01:12:08,159
swamp gas what these people are

1944
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,280
describing

1945
01:12:13,189 --> 01:12:11,600
lights that rise and fall they grow

1946
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:13,199
brighter or dimmer as if they're on a

1947
01:12:17,350 --> 01:12:15,199
rheostat and whenever there are other

1948
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:17,360
light sources in the area they disappear

1949
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:19,199
they seem to disappear this was exactly

1950
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:21,120
what these people were describing and

1951
01:12:25,669 --> 01:12:23,679
this is exactly what swamp gas does so

1952
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:25,679
heinek is pressured into holding a press

1953
01:12:30,310 --> 01:12:28,320
conference by hector quintanilla and

1954
01:12:32,790 --> 01:12:30,320
it's really a big deal the air force's

1955
01:12:34,310 --> 01:12:32,800
number one ufo expert is going to tell

1956
01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:34,320
the world

1957
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:36,320
everybody expected that he was going to

1958
01:12:40,470 --> 01:12:38,239
tell the world that yes these were

1959
01:12:42,390 --> 01:12:40,480
spaceships that these people saw

1960
01:12:44,630 --> 01:12:42,400
i mean can you imagine the excitement

1961
01:12:46,990 --> 01:12:44,640
this was a national story everybody

1962
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:47,000
believed that heinrich was going to say

1963
01:12:52,790 --> 01:12:50,080
extraterrestrial spaceships and instead

1964
01:12:55,910 --> 01:12:52,800
he says swamp gas

1965
01:12:57,669 --> 01:12:55,920
it was a scandal people were furious

1966
01:13:00,070 --> 01:12:57,679
with heineken everybody was furious with

1967
01:13:01,990 --> 01:13:00,080
heinek his ufo colleagues were furious

1968
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:02,000
with him everybody in the state of

1969
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:03,600
michigan was furious with them because

1970
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:05,440
they all thought he was branding them

1971
01:13:09,350 --> 01:13:07,679
you know kooks and loonies it was just a

1972
01:13:12,709 --> 01:13:09,360
horrible horrible moment heineck said it

1973
01:13:14,550 --> 01:13:12,719
was his lowest point in his ufo career

1974
01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:14,560
after all the research i've done on this

1975
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:15,600
case

1976
01:13:20,229 --> 01:13:17,360
i believe heinek said absolutely the

1977
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:20,239
right thing he was a guy who only went

1978
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:21,760
where the facts took him and in this

1979
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:24,640
case the facts took him to swamp gas

1980
01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:26,880
it's undeniable that what all of the

1981
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:28,800
witnesses described

1982
01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:32,159
sound exactly like swamp gas so i am

1983
01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:34,480
actually a huge backer of heinek's swamp

1984
01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:36,239
gas verdict i know that doesn't make me

1985
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:38,640
very popular in some ufo circles but i

1986
01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:40,560
truly believe this case is so well

1987
01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:42,480
documented there's so much information

1988
01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:45,120
if you really really dive deep into the

1989
01:13:48,470 --> 01:13:47,120
chronicles of this case

1990
01:13:51,110 --> 01:13:48,480
i don't think you can come to any other

1991
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:51,120
conclusion that it was was most likely

1992
01:13:55,590 --> 01:13:53,440
swamp gas that all these people saw it

1993
01:13:56,630 --> 01:13:55,600
just didn't sound politically correct

1994
01:13:59,189 --> 01:13:56,640
did it

1995
01:14:01,030 --> 01:13:59,199
no it didn't it made an easy target but

1996
01:14:02,070 --> 01:14:01,040
here's the really weird thing about it

1997
01:14:04,390 --> 01:14:02,080
you guys

1998
01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:04,400
in the week or two after

1999
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:06,880
the swamp gas pronouncement heinek

2000
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:09,600
became an international celebrity he was

2001
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:12,000
being asked to on lectures he was being

2002
01:14:16,870 --> 01:14:14,159
invited to go on talk shows he was

2003
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:16,880
getting piles and piles of mail

2004
01:14:20,790 --> 01:14:18,480
delivered to him not just at wright

2005
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:20,800
patterson but also at the observatory at

2006
01:14:27,430 --> 01:14:24,000
northwestern university heineck became a

2007
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:27,440
superstar because of swamp gas it makes

2008
01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:29,920
absolutely no sense but that's exactly

2009
01:14:33,590 --> 01:14:31,840
what happened everybody wanted a piece

2010
01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:33,600
of the guy and he loved being a

2011
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:35,440
celebrity well that's interesting

2012
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:38,000
because you know i was in looking over

2013
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:40,159
harney's career i was wondering when did

2014
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,000
he first appear but i found quotes from

2015
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:44,640
him in the 40s and and i guess some in

2016
01:14:49,270 --> 01:14:46,719
the into the 50s and he's mentioned in

2017
01:14:51,270 --> 01:14:49,280
rupaul's book but i don't guess he was

2018
01:14:54,790 --> 01:14:51,280
taking part in press conferences before

2019
01:14:58,229 --> 01:14:54,800
that but then he really broke out and uh

2020
01:15:01,110 --> 01:14:58,239
so uh how did he handle this celebrity

2021
01:15:03,669 --> 01:15:01,120
oh he ate it up from all accounts uh

2022
01:15:04,709 --> 01:15:03,679
jacques valet in his in his published

2023
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:04,719
journals

2024
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:07,360
expresses some dismay he felt that the

2025
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:09,840
celebrity hood went to heinek's head and

2026
01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:11,600
that he kind of lost his focus on the

2027
01:15:14,709 --> 01:15:13,520
real issues of the ufo problem because

2028
01:15:17,510 --> 01:15:14,719
of it

2029
01:15:19,669 --> 01:15:17,520
and i guess that's that's not an unfair

2030
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:19,679
representation from valet's point of

2031
01:15:23,669 --> 01:15:21,679
view as one of is one of dr heineck's

2032
01:15:26,790 --> 01:15:23,679
closest friends and colleagues but i

2033
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:26,800
think also dr heineck just saw this as

2034
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:28,800
oh my gosh everybody wants to hear what

2035
01:15:31,669 --> 01:15:30,239
i have to say

2036
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:31,679
and so i'm going to start talking

2037
01:15:37,510 --> 01:15:34,480
because i have a lot to say so

2038
01:15:39,669 --> 01:15:37,520
i think for heinek this this moment of

2039
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:39,679
when he suddenly became a celebrity

2040
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:41,920
it was this amazing opportunity for him

2041
01:15:47,350 --> 01:15:44,239
to educate the american public

2042
01:15:49,030 --> 01:15:47,360
and say look forget about swamp gas

2043
01:15:51,669 --> 01:15:49,040
let's talk about the real issues of the

2044
01:15:54,470 --> 01:15:51,679
ufo phenomenon there are many many

2045
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:54,480
credible cases reported by many many

2046
01:15:57,990 --> 01:15:56,400
credible witnesses and we need to pay

2047
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:58,000
attention to this and we need to study

2048
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:59,520
them we don't need to be wasting our

2049
01:16:03,270 --> 01:16:01,199
time on these swamp gas cases where

2050
01:16:05,430 --> 01:16:03,280
there's really no evidence and none of

2051
01:16:07,750 --> 01:16:05,440
the witnesses can agree on anything we

2052
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:07,760
need to really seriously concentrate on

2053
01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:10,000
the good cases so for heineken it was

2054
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:12,480
just this golden opportunity to become

2055
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:15,199
not a celebrity but an educator also he

2056
01:16:19,990 --> 01:16:16,960
could cash in when he started writing

2057
01:16:22,149 --> 01:16:20,000
books we do have to be honest about that

2058
01:16:24,310 --> 01:16:22,159
and that leads me to a story

2059
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:24,320
where i introduce

2060
01:16:30,310 --> 01:16:27,199
dr heineck to a famous author this

2061
01:16:31,750 --> 01:16:30,320
occurred in the latter part of the 1970s

2062
01:16:34,550 --> 01:16:31,760
and it was kind of interesting to kind

2063
01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:34,560
of sit back and watch this interaction

2064
01:16:38,709 --> 01:16:35,840
i'll tell you what it's about in a few

2065
01:16:50,630 --> 01:16:38,719
moments mark o'connell kurt collins gene

2066
01:16:55,390 --> 01:16:54,149
thank you for listening to gcn

2067
01:16:58,229 --> 01:16:55,400
be sure to visit

2068
01:17:00,470 --> 01:16:58,239
gcnlive.com today

2069
01:17:02,470 --> 01:17:00,480
the answer to being in control of your

2070
01:17:04,709 --> 01:17:02,480
own health care is freedom from

2071
01:17:06,870 --> 01:17:04,719
insurance become part of a group of

2072
01:17:09,030 --> 01:17:06,880
self-pay patients that come together to

2073
01:17:11,750 --> 01:17:09,040
share in each other's medical expenses

2074
01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:11,760
individual share amounts begin at 107 a

2075
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:14,719
month and 347 for families choose from

2076
01:17:18,550 --> 01:17:16,640
three health sharing programs holistic

2077
01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:18,560
treatments may be eligible for sharing

2078
01:17:22,790 --> 01:17:20,320
see guidelines discount programs

2079
01:17:25,189 --> 01:17:22,800
available for dental vision and pharmacy

2080
01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:25,199
go to libertyoncall.org that's

2081
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:28,000
libertyoncall.org

2082
01:17:31,350 --> 01:17:29,520
being self-reliant is about being

2083
01:17:33,270 --> 01:17:31,360
prepared and to do what you need to have

2084
01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:33,280
your own source of renewable energy

2085
01:17:37,430 --> 01:17:35,360
portable solar llc offers the most

2086
01:17:38,950 --> 01:17:37,440
powerful emp hardened solar system on

2087
01:17:40,630 --> 01:17:38,960
the market that is transportable from

2088
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:40,640
place to place and the best part it's

2089
01:17:43,990 --> 01:17:42,080
very affordable contact them at

2090
01:18:00,470 --> 01:17:44,000
portablesolarlc.com

2091
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:02,229
it's about time something new came along

2092
01:18:07,950 --> 01:18:04,560
for better selling and buying online and

2093
01:18:09,910 --> 01:18:07,960
i found it what now marge it's buy sell

2094
01:18:11,270 --> 01:18:09,920
makeoffer.com never heard of it it's a

2095
01:18:13,110 --> 01:18:11,280
brand new company that's why you've

2096
01:18:15,270 --> 01:18:13,120
never heard of it it's the newest and

2097
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:15,280
best way to sell any products online i

2098
01:18:20,390 --> 01:18:17,440
did all the research saw my car yes our

2099
01:18:21,669 --> 01:18:20,400
home yep my golf bag you're a golf clubs

2100
01:18:22,950 --> 01:18:21,679
all of them how about your purse

2101
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:22,960
collection horde

2102
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:26,480
now you said any product right i did

2103
01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:28,400
we get 30 days free and membership is

2104
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:32,400
only 9.95 yep and buy sell make offer

2105
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:35,840
dot com will never charge item fees ever

2106
01:18:40,470 --> 01:18:37,840
never and this is cool listen to this

2107
01:18:42,790 --> 01:18:40,480
you can even use skype or video to show

2108
01:18:44,950 --> 01:18:42,800
your items that's cool yes all we have

2109
01:18:47,350 --> 01:18:44,960
to do is go to the website sign up and

2110
01:18:50,149 --> 01:18:47,360
then load our stuff to sell i love this

2111
01:18:51,669 --> 01:18:50,159
site buy sell makeoffer.com buy

2112
01:18:57,110 --> 01:18:51,679
sellmakeoffer.com

2113
01:19:02,470 --> 01:18:59,910
better selling better buying if you're

2114
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:02,480
85 or younger would you like peace of

2115
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:04,719
mind and comfort for your family we're

2116
01:19:08,950 --> 01:19:06,960
final expense direct with an urgent

2117
01:19:11,430 --> 01:19:08,960
message for you the average funeral

2118
01:19:13,030 --> 01:19:11,440
today costs over eight thousand dollars

2119
01:19:16,870 --> 01:19:13,040
but the most you'll get from government

2120
01:19:19,430 --> 01:19:16,880
benefits is 255 dollars how will your

2121
01:19:21,830 --> 01:19:19,440
family pay the difference we can help

2122
01:19:23,910 --> 01:19:21,840
our senior plans start as low as just a

2123
01:19:25,990 --> 01:19:23,920
dollar a day and pay up to thirty

2124
01:19:29,110 --> 01:19:26,000
thousand dollars for a funeral and other

2125
01:19:31,270 --> 01:19:29,120
final expenses peace of mind is easy

2126
01:19:33,830 --> 01:19:31,280
there's no medical exam you'll have

2127
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:33,840
lifetime coverage and your plan can't be

2128
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:35,520
cancelled as long as you pay your

2129
01:19:40,630 --> 01:19:38,080
premiums call now for free information

2130
01:19:42,790 --> 01:19:40,640
about our senior plans answer a few

2131
01:19:45,590 --> 01:19:42,800
simple questions and receive approval

2132
01:19:46,870 --> 01:19:45,600
right on the phone plus call right now

2133
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:46,880
and we'll give you a discount

2134
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:48,960
prescription card for free call

2135
01:19:53,790 --> 01:19:51,840
800-557-0158

2136
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:53,800
that's

2137
01:20:02,070 --> 01:20:00,070
have you ever thought you'd like to flip

2138
01:20:03,910 --> 01:20:02,080
houses but didn't know how or where to

2139
01:20:05,590 --> 01:20:03,920
get the money are you ready to be your

2140
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:05,600
own boss so you can start living the

2141
01:20:10,149 --> 01:20:07,840
good life hi i'm preston neely i used to

2142
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,159
be so broke i had my electricity turned

2143
01:20:14,470 --> 01:20:12,480
off nine times but i figured out a way

2144
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:14,480
to quit my job and find financial

2145
01:20:18,630 --> 01:20:16,400
freedom in real estate for a limited

2146
01:20:20,950 --> 01:20:18,640
time i want to send you a free copy of

2147
01:20:22,950 --> 01:20:20,960
my smash hit selling book how to get

2148
01:20:25,350 --> 01:20:22,960
rich in real estate it shows you how to

2149
01:20:27,030 --> 01:20:25,360
copy exactly what i did so you can make

2150
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,040
money from the comfort of your own home

2151
01:20:31,030 --> 01:20:29,280
without even doing any manual labor i've

2152
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:31,040
already given away 5 000 books and

2153
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:32,800
they're going fast to get one before

2154
01:20:40,229 --> 01:20:38,470
listen if you're sick and tired of

2155
01:20:43,030 --> 01:20:40,239
stressing about money this book could

2156
01:20:45,430 --> 01:20:43,040
change your life it's short fun to read

2157
01:20:46,709 --> 01:20:45,440
easy to understand and awesome to find

2158
01:20:51,110 --> 01:20:46,719
out how to get your free book while

2159
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:54,630
call 1-800-958-6936

2160
01:20:54,640 --> 01:21:05,990
1-800-958-6936

2161
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:08,070
hi it's grant cameron from presidential

2162
01:21:19,750 --> 01:21:11,840
ufo.com you're listening to the paracast

2163
01:21:24,790 --> 01:21:22,310
so what am i talking about here well in

2164
01:21:27,510 --> 01:21:24,800
the 1970s there was a best-selling book

2165
01:21:29,830 --> 01:21:27,520
called the bermuda triangle and it

2166
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:29,840
basically took all the legends

2167
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:30,960
of

2168
01:21:34,229 --> 01:21:32,000
those

2169
01:21:36,310 --> 01:21:34,239
alleged disappearances

2170
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:36,320
of ships and planes in the bermuda

2171
01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:37,360
triangle

2172
01:21:42,310 --> 01:21:39,120
and he made a big deal of it and the

2173
01:21:44,709 --> 01:21:42,320
book was written by charles burlitz

2174
01:21:45,750 --> 01:21:44,719
charles burlitz was the grandson of the

2175
01:21:47,669 --> 01:21:45,760
founder

2176
01:21:49,990 --> 01:21:47,679
of the burless language schools he's a

2177
01:21:52,149 --> 01:21:50,000
guy who was very rich

2178
01:21:54,390 --> 01:21:52,159
before he got into this and became a

2179
01:21:57,030 --> 01:21:54,400
best-selling author so how did i get

2180
01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:57,040
involved with this well i was doing a

2181
01:22:01,590 --> 01:21:59,040
local cable access

2182
01:22:03,830 --> 01:22:01,600
tv show the world beyond reality for a

2183
01:22:05,189 --> 01:22:03,840
magazine called beyond reality

2184
01:22:07,350 --> 01:22:05,199
and i was a host

2185
01:22:09,669 --> 01:22:07,360
because i had a broadcast background so

2186
01:22:10,470 --> 01:22:09,679
bro let's agree to come on the show

2187
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:10,480
and

2188
01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:11,360
he

2189
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:16,400
and i said i have some information for

2190
01:22:21,350 --> 01:22:18,800
you and we became friends

2191
01:22:23,510 --> 01:22:21,360
and i was considered some kind of

2192
01:22:25,510 --> 01:22:23,520
advisor or contributor to a couple of

2193
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:25,520
his books where he gave me credits and a

2194
01:22:30,070 --> 01:22:28,320
few free lunches that's it of course

2195
01:22:32,390 --> 01:22:30,080
burlitz really

2196
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:32,400
became known because he was the named

2197
01:22:35,669 --> 01:22:33,360
author

2198
01:22:37,430 --> 01:22:35,679
in addition to william moore of the book

2199
01:22:38,390 --> 01:22:37,440
on the roswell case that brought back

2200
01:22:39,189 --> 01:22:38,400
roswell

2201
01:22:41,030 --> 01:22:39,199
okay

2202
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:41,040
having met dr heineck and interviewed

2203
01:22:45,030 --> 01:22:43,280
him i knew he was coming to new york

2204
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:45,040
and i thought you know

2205
01:22:49,030 --> 01:22:47,280
two book authors let's see if they want

2206
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:49,040
to get together because burlesque wanted

2207
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:52,480
to meet heinek so i arranged for berlitz

2208
01:22:56,229 --> 01:22:55,440
to meet high nick in his hotel room

2209
01:22:57,910 --> 01:22:56,239
so

2210
01:23:00,149 --> 01:22:57,920
during that time

2211
01:23:02,310 --> 01:23:00,159
it was like a 20-minute meeting

2212
01:23:04,229 --> 01:23:02,320
heineken is asking bralettes what he

2213
01:23:06,709 --> 01:23:04,239
could do to promote his books

2214
01:23:09,270 --> 01:23:06,719
this is probably before they made the

2215
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:09,280
movie close encounters of the third kind

2216
01:23:12,790 --> 01:23:11,760
and it was really fascinating to watch

2217
01:23:15,990 --> 01:23:12,800
these

2218
01:23:19,189 --> 01:23:16,000
guys at it understand burlitz was a

2219
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:19,199
character he had a twinkle in his eye

2220
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:21,520
he would tell me more often than you

2221
01:23:25,830 --> 01:23:23,840
would expect i'm honest as the day is

2222
01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:25,840
long

2223
01:23:31,350 --> 01:23:28,000
and you have to say

2224
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:31,360
if someone says that over and over again

2225
01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:34,880
he's telling you something

2226
01:23:39,669 --> 01:23:36,719
kurt you had a little insight into

2227
01:23:42,149 --> 01:23:39,679
something that berlitz did to our

2228
01:23:44,229 --> 01:23:42,159
cultural lexicon right

2229
01:23:46,310 --> 01:23:44,239
i was looking up the origin of a phrase

2230
01:23:48,390 --> 01:23:46,320
and it's associated with the stanton

2231
01:23:50,709 --> 01:23:48,400
friedman but

2232
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:50,719
in in you mentioned the bermuda triangle

2233
01:23:55,590 --> 01:23:53,280
book that's where the phrase cosmic

2234
01:23:57,510 --> 01:23:55,600
watergate first came out berlitz was

2235
01:24:00,390 --> 01:23:57,520
mentioned that in interviews and and

2236
01:24:03,189 --> 01:24:00,400
obviously stan friedman liked that so

2237
01:24:06,870 --> 01:24:03,199
he went into that which of course is is

2238
01:24:08,629 --> 01:24:06,880
the shorthand for a uh ufo cover-up

2239
01:24:11,910 --> 01:24:08,639
comparing it to the watergate cover-up

2240
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:11,920
and and mark did uh what was uh what was

2241
01:24:16,870 --> 01:24:14,800
heinek's position on the the cover of

2242
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:16,880
the cover-up because you know he was as

2243
01:24:21,510 --> 01:24:19,360
a skeptic debunker for the

2244
01:24:24,229 --> 01:24:21,520
air force you know he was accused of

2245
01:24:26,470 --> 01:24:24,239
being part of it oh yeah which was

2246
01:24:29,510 --> 01:24:26,480
always very uncomfortable for him

2247
01:24:30,550 --> 01:24:29,520
he did he did um

2248
01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:30,560
believe

2249
01:24:35,910 --> 01:24:33,120
that there was

2250
01:24:38,310 --> 01:24:35,920
another study of ufos going on somewhere

2251
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:38,320
in the government but

2252
01:24:41,350 --> 01:24:40,320
he had a funny saying about cover-ups he

2253
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:41,360
said look

2254
01:24:46,229 --> 01:24:43,600
you can cover up knowing something or

2255
01:24:48,149 --> 01:24:46,239
you can cover up not knowing something

2256
01:24:50,229 --> 01:24:48,159
and he truly believed that whatever the

2257
01:24:52,709 --> 01:24:50,239
air force was covering up it had to do

2258
01:24:55,189 --> 01:24:52,719
with them not knowing something

2259
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:55,199
that's the way he saw it but he did

2260
01:24:59,189 --> 01:24:57,120
agree though that there was probably

2261
01:25:01,590 --> 01:24:59,199
some office somewhere

2262
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:01,600
in the pentagon or at langley where

2263
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:04,320
somebody was keeping tabs on the ufo

2264
01:25:07,350 --> 01:25:05,760
problem

2265
01:25:09,510 --> 01:25:07,360
but he never really believed that the

2266
01:25:11,510 --> 01:25:09,520
air force actually understood anything

2267
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:11,520
about the phenomenon at all even to the

2268
01:25:14,870 --> 01:25:13,360
bitter end

2269
01:25:17,110 --> 01:25:14,880
so that's an interesting point here

2270
01:25:19,990 --> 01:25:17,120
because there are people out there who

2271
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:20,000
talk about as we say cosmic watergate

2272
01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:21,920
believe that the government has the

2273
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:23,760
truth somewhere they only need to

2274
01:25:27,990 --> 01:25:26,400
disclose it to set us free in the early

2275
01:25:30,149 --> 01:25:28,000
days major keyhole

2276
01:25:32,629 --> 01:25:30,159
was talking about a silence group

2277
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:32,639
enforcing this policy and they all had

2278
01:25:37,510 --> 01:25:34,800
to know ufos were spaceships it was so

2279
01:25:40,229 --> 01:25:37,520
obvious how could it be otherwise

2280
01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:40,239
but if you say if the government doesn't

2281
01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:41,600
know

2282
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:43,360
one thing you'd want to do is sweep it

2283
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:44,719
under the rug you don't want to admit

2284
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:45,840
you don't know

2285
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:48,000
you could have generals or other

2286
01:25:51,510 --> 01:25:50,560
military commanders saying hey we can't

2287
01:25:53,110 --> 01:25:51,520
admit

2288
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:53,120
we don't know what's going on some

2289
01:25:57,590 --> 01:25:55,360
people might panic

2290
01:25:59,750 --> 01:25:57,600
a lot of different explanations none of

2291
01:26:01,669 --> 01:25:59,760
which mean they know any truth about it

2292
01:26:04,550 --> 01:26:01,679
am i correct yeah

2293
01:26:07,430 --> 01:26:04,560
yeah absolutely

2294
01:26:09,910 --> 01:26:07,440
so let's go into the migration here

2295
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:09,920
of dr j allen heineck becoming an

2296
01:26:14,470 --> 01:26:12,000
international celebrity when did the

2297
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:14,480
books about ufos begin

2298
01:26:18,629 --> 01:26:16,320
well his first book the ufo experience

2299
01:26:20,870 --> 01:26:18,639
came out in 1972

2300
01:26:22,229 --> 01:26:20,880
and it was a it was um

2301
01:26:26,149 --> 01:26:22,239
i would say it was one of the more

2302
01:26:28,390 --> 01:26:26,159
scholarly ufo books ever to be published

2303
01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:28,400
he talked to he talked a lot in that

2304
01:26:32,070 --> 01:26:30,239
book about his experiences with the air

2305
01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:32,080
force and you know sort of sort of

2306
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:34,000
retraced his history

2307
01:26:37,590 --> 01:26:36,000
and his personal journey as a ufo

2308
01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:37,600
investigator

2309
01:26:42,550 --> 01:26:40,159
but he also started talking in that book

2310
01:26:44,550 --> 01:26:42,560
about two important things one of them

2311
01:26:46,790 --> 01:26:44,560
was as i mentioned earlier the human

2312
01:26:48,310 --> 01:26:46,800
factor which he became really aware of

2313
01:26:49,510 --> 01:26:48,320
when he went out onto his first field

2314
01:26:52,950 --> 01:26:49,520
investigation

2315
01:26:55,030 --> 01:26:52,960
he really paid attention in his book to

2316
01:26:57,350 --> 01:26:55,040
the kinds of people who were having ufo

2317
01:26:59,430 --> 01:26:57,360
encounters and how it affected them

2318
01:27:01,110 --> 01:26:59,440
and how they perceived their experience

2319
01:27:02,310 --> 01:27:01,120
and how they would try to relate their

2320
01:27:04,470 --> 01:27:02,320
experience

2321
01:27:07,189 --> 01:27:04,480
he was always very very struck by the

2322
01:27:09,510 --> 01:27:07,199
fact that um ufo witnesses were

2323
01:27:11,350 --> 01:27:09,520
trying to describe things for which we

2324
01:27:13,669 --> 01:27:11,360
don't have words

2325
01:27:15,990 --> 01:27:13,679
how do you describe something

2326
01:27:19,030 --> 01:27:16,000
that doesn't have a name or doesn't have

2327
01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:19,040
any words that we have that apply to it

2328
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:21,520
at all it was a very strange situation

2329
01:27:24,870 --> 01:27:23,120
but he really paid a lot of attention to

2330
01:27:27,910 --> 01:27:24,880
that in his book

2331
01:27:29,990 --> 01:27:27,920
he also in that book started to

2332
01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:30,000
elaborate on

2333
01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:33,360
his system for classifying ufo events

2334
01:27:39,430 --> 01:27:36,960
he had been doing a lot of work on um on

2335
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:39,440
on coming up with ways to

2336
01:27:43,350 --> 01:27:41,920
categorize ufo sightings as a scientist

2337
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:43,360
of course he thought first thing we need

2338
01:27:48,390 --> 01:27:46,400
to do is categorize phenomenon look for

2339
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:48,400
similarities look for patterns and

2340
01:27:52,070 --> 01:27:49,920
relationships

2341
01:27:54,070 --> 01:27:52,080
so he started developing a really simple

2342
01:27:55,590 --> 01:27:54,080
categorization system with three

2343
01:27:56,950 --> 01:27:55,600
different categories it's not the ones

2344
01:27:59,669 --> 01:27:56,960
you're thinking of

2345
01:28:01,270 --> 01:27:59,679
in this first book he talked about

2346
01:28:02,390 --> 01:28:01,280
daylight discs

2347
01:28:08,070 --> 01:28:02,400
and

2348
01:28:09,669 --> 01:28:08,080
third variety was visual radar sightings

2349
01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:09,679
and he spent a lot of time in the book

2350
01:28:14,709 --> 01:28:12,159
cataloging many many different instances

2351
01:28:16,310 --> 01:28:14,719
of these three different types of ufo

2352
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:16,320
encounters

2353
01:28:22,950 --> 01:28:19,120
and he was he was most interested in

2354
01:28:24,149 --> 01:28:22,960
the visual slash radar contacts because

2355
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:24,159
he felt that those were the most

2356
01:28:29,910 --> 01:28:27,600
credible and he felt that those actually

2357
01:28:31,910 --> 01:28:29,920
those cases actually had enough

2358
01:28:34,310 --> 01:28:31,920
scientific information that you could

2359
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:34,320
actually do a credible scientific study

2360
01:28:38,470 --> 01:28:36,880
of what was involved so that was kind of

2361
01:28:41,510 --> 01:28:38,480
that was kind of the breakthrough with

2362
01:28:44,149 --> 01:28:41,520
that book in 1972 then after those first

2363
01:28:46,870 --> 01:28:44,159
three categories then he also went into

2364
01:28:47,910 --> 01:28:46,880
some detail about three more categories

2365
01:28:50,310 --> 01:28:47,920
and these are the ones we're all

2366
01:28:52,629 --> 01:28:50,320
familiar with the close encounters

2367
01:28:55,270 --> 01:28:52,639
and of course a case that starts out

2368
01:28:57,510 --> 01:28:55,280
with a meandering nocturnal light can

2369
01:28:59,350 --> 01:28:57,520
eventually become a close encounter so

2370
01:29:01,350 --> 01:28:59,360
these two groups of three categories all

2371
01:29:03,110 --> 01:29:01,360
sort of meshed with each other

2372
01:29:04,629 --> 01:29:03,120
so close encounters what are the close

2373
01:29:05,830 --> 01:29:04,639
encounters well close encounter the

2374
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:05,840
first kind

2375
01:29:11,510 --> 01:29:09,199
involves visual contact with the ufo and

2376
01:29:14,550 --> 01:29:11,520
would generally give a distance of about

2377
01:29:15,750 --> 01:29:14,560
500 yards 1500 feet he felt that was

2378
01:29:16,870 --> 01:29:15,760
close enough that you could actually

2379
01:29:19,350 --> 01:29:16,880
make out

2380
01:29:21,350 --> 01:29:19,360
physical details of the object you could

2381
01:29:23,110 --> 01:29:21,360
you could see its size and its shape and

2382
01:29:24,790 --> 01:29:23,120
whether it had a solid outline things of

2383
01:29:26,790 --> 01:29:24,800
that nature

2384
01:29:29,669 --> 01:29:26,800
close encounter of the second kind

2385
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:29,679
was also within 500 yards but it

2386
01:29:34,709 --> 01:29:30,880
included

2387
01:29:38,070 --> 01:29:34,719
the object having um an effect on

2388
01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:38,080
the environment and that could be

2389
01:29:42,550 --> 01:29:40,639
leaving behind burning bushes or landing

2390
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:42,560
landing pad imprints it could mean

2391
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:44,639
knocking out a car's engine as the ufo

2392
01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:45,840
flies by

2393
01:29:51,669 --> 01:29:49,440
it could mean the witness suffering from

2394
01:29:54,149 --> 01:29:51,679
from welding burns on their retinas or

2395
01:29:55,350 --> 01:29:54,159
from radioactive exposure

2396
01:29:56,870 --> 01:29:55,360
so that was

2397
01:29:58,550 --> 01:29:56,880
that was the second kind those were

2398
01:30:00,709 --> 01:29:58,560
hynek's favorite cases because again

2399
01:30:03,590 --> 01:30:00,719
they provided the most meaty scientific

2400
01:30:04,790 --> 01:30:03,600
data close encounter the third kind he

2401
01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:04,800
didn't he never wanted to deal with

2402
01:30:07,270 --> 01:30:06,000
close encounters of the third kind

2403
01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:07,280
because they were too absurd they were

2404
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:09,120
too far out those were the cases

2405
01:30:13,510 --> 01:30:11,600
involving occupants of the ufo

2406
01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:13,520
and in a close encounter of the third

2407
01:30:17,510 --> 01:30:15,440
kind the witness would either

2408
01:30:19,910 --> 01:30:17,520
see the occupants or actually interact

2409
01:30:21,990 --> 01:30:19,920
with the occupants of a ufo heineck

2410
01:30:23,430 --> 01:30:22,000
hated those cases but he felt he had to

2411
01:30:25,189 --> 01:30:23,440
include them because there was so much

2412
01:30:26,470 --> 01:30:25,199
evidence saying that they were happening

2413
01:30:28,470 --> 01:30:26,480
of course one

2414
01:30:31,189 --> 01:30:28,480
notable example that we have to think

2415
01:30:33,189 --> 01:30:31,199
about is socaro new mexico where

2416
01:30:34,790 --> 01:30:33,199
possible beings were seen

2417
01:30:36,629 --> 01:30:34,800
in connection with that case and dr

2418
01:30:38,070 --> 01:30:36,639
heineck did investigate it more to come

2419
01:30:40,870 --> 01:30:38,080
with mark o'connell

2420
01:30:50,629 --> 01:30:40,880
and jean and curtis you're in the

2421
01:30:55,470 --> 01:30:54,149
thank you for listening to gcn

2422
01:30:58,310 --> 01:30:55,480
be sure to visit

2423
01:31:00,390 --> 01:30:58,320
gcnlive.com today

2424
01:31:01,350 --> 01:31:00,400
neighbors i want to tell you about my

2425
01:31:03,669 --> 01:31:01,360
favorite

2426
01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:03,679
graphics app it's the award-winning

2427
01:31:07,910 --> 01:31:05,760
graphic converter you know graphic

2428
01:31:11,030 --> 01:31:07,920
inverter is the universal genius for

2429
01:31:13,350 --> 01:31:11,040
photo editing on your mac join over one

2430
01:31:16,390 --> 01:31:13,360
and a half million loyal users for this

2431
01:31:18,149 --> 01:31:16,400
swiss army knife photo editing app it

2432
01:31:20,629 --> 01:31:18,159
gives you all you expect from a top

2433
01:31:22,870 --> 01:31:20,639
flight image editing app with tons of

2434
01:31:26,149 --> 01:31:22,880
features and most important

2435
01:31:28,629 --> 01:31:26,159
it's easy to use it's also far less

2436
01:31:31,110 --> 01:31:28,639
expensive than that other app that you

2437
01:31:32,950 --> 01:31:31,120
can only get by subscription you know

2438
01:31:35,270 --> 01:31:32,960
the one i'm talking about

2439
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:35,280
what's more you can get twenty percent

2440
01:31:39,750 --> 01:31:37,760
off with your order right now

2441
01:31:41,750 --> 01:31:39,760
so write this down to learn about

2442
01:31:44,510 --> 01:31:41,760
graphic converter

2443
01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:44,520
go to www dot

2444
01:31:50,390 --> 01:31:48,880
lemkesoft dot d e slash gene

2445
01:31:56,390 --> 01:31:50,400
let me spell that

2446
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:56,400
w w w dot l e m k e soft dot d e

2447
01:32:01,590 --> 01:31:59,199
slash gene fully cooked ready to eat

2448
01:32:04,390 --> 01:32:01,600
bacon i'm talking thick meaty center cut

2449
01:32:07,270 --> 01:32:04,400
presidential bacon savory and delicious

2450
01:32:09,669 --> 01:32:07,280
i buy some i use some i store some

2451
01:32:12,629 --> 01:32:09,679
awesome no refrigeration needed with a

2452
01:32:15,430 --> 01:32:12,639
10 year shelf life nasa pack technology

2453
01:32:17,669 --> 01:32:15,440
bacon fully cooked fully hydrated ready

2454
01:32:20,390 --> 01:32:17,679
to eat right from the packed bacon or

2455
01:32:23,270 --> 01:32:20,400
warm and served life-saving ready to eat

2456
01:32:24,510 --> 01:32:23,280
bacon 10-year shelf life bacon ships

2457
01:32:28,870 --> 01:32:24,520
free at

2458
01:32:32,310 --> 01:32:30,550
if there's a toxic chemical biological

2459
01:32:34,390 --> 01:32:32,320
gas smoke emergency while traveling at

2460
01:32:36,149 --> 01:32:34,400
home or on your job are you protected

2461
01:32:38,070 --> 01:32:36,159
are you prepared there are over 400

2462
01:32:39,750 --> 01:32:38,080
thousand fires in the usa every year up

2463
01:32:41,350 --> 01:32:39,760
to 85 percent of all deaths on a fire

2464
01:32:43,110 --> 01:32:41,360
are due to smoke inhalation three

2465
01:32:45,590 --> 01:32:43,120
minutes without air and we as humans

2466
01:32:47,350 --> 01:32:45,600
will die be prepared and escape safely

2467
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:47,360
with our safe escape smoke hoods giving

2468
01:32:51,790 --> 01:32:49,120
you up to 60 minutes of breathable air

2469
01:32:55,110 --> 01:32:51,800
protection order yours online at

2470
01:32:59,990 --> 01:32:55,120
ase.safety.com that's ase.safety.com

2471
01:33:03,110 --> 01:33:01,669
are you living your passion are you

2472
01:33:05,110 --> 01:33:03,120
pumped to go to work because you get to

2473
01:33:07,110 --> 01:33:05,120
talk about or work with or do the things

2474
01:33:09,189 --> 01:33:07,120
that interest you the most is working

2475
01:33:10,790 --> 01:33:09,199
playing and relaxing one and the same as

2476
01:33:12,629 --> 01:33:10,800
long as you're working for someone else

2477
01:33:14,790 --> 01:33:12,639
you'll never be living entirely true to

2478
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:14,800
yourself and your passion i'm pharmacist

2479
01:33:18,470 --> 01:33:16,560
keith let me show you how you can work

2480
01:33:20,229 --> 01:33:18,480
around your current schedule create the

2481
01:33:23,189 --> 01:33:20,239
extra income so you can live your

2482
01:33:25,910 --> 01:33:23,199
passion visit radio dot recorded video

2483
01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:25,920
dot com that's radio dot recorded video

2484
01:33:31,189 --> 01:33:29,520
dot com radio dot recorded video dot com

2485
01:33:33,030 --> 01:33:31,199
have you checked your google search

2486
01:33:34,870 --> 01:33:33,040
results lately search results are

2487
01:33:36,709 --> 01:33:34,880
usually the first impression that people

2488
01:33:38,229 --> 01:33:36,719
form of you or your business so make

2489
01:33:41,030 --> 01:33:38,239
sure that they create a positive

2490
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:41,040
impression with reputationdefender.com

2491
01:33:44,229 --> 01:33:42,560
what the internet says about you can

2492
01:33:46,229 --> 01:33:44,239
have a big impact on your life and your

2493
01:33:48,229 --> 01:33:46,239
livelihood even if it's not true

2494
01:33:50,470 --> 01:33:48,239
fortunately you can now control how you

2495
01:33:51,550 --> 01:33:50,480
look online and in online search results

2496
01:33:54,270 --> 01:33:51,560
with

2497
01:33:57,390 --> 01:33:54,280
reputationdefender.com call

2498
01:33:59,830 --> 01:33:57,400
800-8310-771 now that's

2499
01:34:01,990 --> 01:33:59,840
800-831-07-71 for your free reputation

2500
01:34:03,990 --> 01:34:02,000
analysis if you have negative material

2501
01:34:06,070 --> 01:34:04,000
from an ex-employee upset patient or

2502
01:34:07,830 --> 01:34:06,080
former client newspaper article legal

2503
01:34:09,430 --> 01:34:07,840
issues social media or other source

2504
01:34:10,550 --> 01:34:09,440
showing up in your search results you

2505
01:34:12,629 --> 01:34:10,560
can combat it with

2506
01:34:14,470 --> 01:34:12,639
reputationdefender.com

2507
01:34:16,149 --> 01:34:14,480
our dedicated experts and patented

2508
01:34:19,149 --> 01:34:16,159
technology can help make your online

2509
01:34:22,350 --> 01:34:19,159
search results look their best call

2510
01:34:26,229 --> 01:34:22,360
800-831071 to learn more

2511
01:34:27,629 --> 01:34:26,239
800-831-07-71 that's 800-831-07-71

2512
01:34:29,830 --> 01:34:27,639
or visit

2513
01:34:32,070 --> 01:34:29,840
reputationdefender.com looking for that

2514
01:34:33,910 --> 01:34:32,080
edge during those intimate moments we

2515
01:34:36,870 --> 01:34:33,920
see many ads for enhancement but the

2516
01:34:38,709 --> 01:34:36,880
side effects include death at gcn team

2517
01:34:40,470 --> 01:34:38,719
we should change the healthy body brain

2518
01:34:42,149 --> 01:34:40,480
and heart pack to the healthy libido

2519
01:34:43,910 --> 01:34:42,159
pack the brain and heart are not the

2520
01:34:46,470 --> 01:34:43,920
only organs that require a healthy

2521
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:46,480
vascular system for proper blood flow at

2522
01:34:52,390 --> 01:34:49,360
the right moment go to gcnt.com or call

2523
01:35:03,750 --> 01:34:55,430
that's 877-878-4203

2524
01:35:08,310 --> 01:35:06,310
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

2525
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:08,320
encyclopedia in other books you're

2526
01:35:21,510 --> 01:35:10,810
listening to the peercast

2527
01:35:25,270 --> 01:35:23,830
so we have the various close encounters

2528
01:35:26,550 --> 01:35:25,280
he doesn't like the close encounter the

2529
01:35:28,390 --> 01:35:26,560
third kind

2530
01:35:30,790 --> 01:35:28,400
because of the implications

2531
01:35:33,110 --> 01:35:30,800
but zikara new mexico

2532
01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:33,120
was a possible ce3

2533
01:35:36,229 --> 01:35:34,800
did you look into his attitude about

2534
01:35:38,070 --> 01:35:36,239
that case

2535
01:35:40,070 --> 01:35:38,080
oh yeah that was an important case for

2536
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:40,080
him um

2537
01:35:44,470 --> 01:35:42,400
so the case involved a a

2538
01:35:46,229 --> 01:35:44,480
local police officer lonnie zamora who

2539
01:35:48,790 --> 01:35:46,239
was out chasing a speeder one day

2540
01:35:50,470 --> 01:35:48,800
towards the end of his shift and he

2541
01:35:52,149 --> 01:35:50,480
passes these hills outside of the town

2542
01:35:54,310 --> 01:35:52,159
of sequoia new mexico and he hears a

2543
01:35:57,270 --> 01:35:54,320
blast and he sees a he sees a jet of

2544
01:35:59,669 --> 01:35:57,280
flame coming up from beyond these hills

2545
01:36:01,350 --> 01:35:59,679
so he gives up on chasing the speeder he

2546
01:36:03,110 --> 01:36:01,360
steers off the road onto this gravel

2547
01:36:05,270 --> 01:36:03,120
track that takes him up steep hill so

2548
01:36:07,270 --> 01:36:05,280
he's driving along this ridge and down

2549
01:36:08,470 --> 01:36:07,280
below the ridge he sees

2550
01:36:11,030 --> 01:36:08,480
what it first appears to be an

2551
01:36:12,550 --> 01:36:11,040
overturned car and two people standing

2552
01:36:14,470 --> 01:36:12,560
next to the car

2553
01:36:16,790 --> 01:36:14,480
very short people wearing white

2554
01:36:18,310 --> 01:36:16,800
coveralls is what he saw well then he

2555
01:36:20,070 --> 01:36:18,320
gets a little closer

2556
01:36:21,189 --> 01:36:20,080
and the two

2557
01:36:23,669 --> 01:36:21,199
people

2558
01:36:26,709 --> 01:36:23,679
see him coming and they sort of jump in

2559
01:36:28,629 --> 01:36:26,719
alarm and disappear by the time lonnie

2560
01:36:31,910 --> 01:36:28,639
stops his car and scrambles down the

2561
01:36:34,390 --> 01:36:31,920
hill to get a closer look the two people

2562
01:36:36,390 --> 01:36:34,400
or humanoids have disappeared apparently

2563
01:36:38,070 --> 01:36:36,400
they've gone back inside the egg and

2564
01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:38,080
that's what it is it's not an overturned

2565
01:36:42,950 --> 01:36:40,800
car it's this gigantic aluminum egg

2566
01:36:45,189 --> 01:36:42,960
supported by landing struts

2567
01:36:47,030 --> 01:36:45,199
and it starts to roar and flame shoots

2568
01:36:48,629 --> 01:36:47,040
out from the bottom so lonnie scrambles

2569
01:36:51,350 --> 01:36:48,639
back up the hill to his squad car to

2570
01:36:53,270 --> 01:36:51,360
hide as this thing launches into the air

2571
01:36:55,430 --> 01:36:53,280
and then shoots off horizontally towards

2572
01:36:57,590 --> 01:36:55,440
the horizon lonnie is very shaken he

2573
01:36:59,750 --> 01:36:57,600
calls in back up a state patrol man

2574
01:37:01,669 --> 01:36:59,760
shows up within minutes and finds lonnie

2575
01:37:03,590 --> 01:37:01,679
essentially in shock and they go back

2576
01:37:05,510 --> 01:37:03,600
down to the bottom of the arroyo and

2577
01:37:07,990 --> 01:37:05,520
there's a burning bush from this

2578
01:37:09,430 --> 01:37:08,000
object's flamed exhaust

2579
01:37:11,910 --> 01:37:09,440
there's a burning bush and there are

2580
01:37:14,229 --> 01:37:11,920
landing mark inference so here you've

2581
01:37:15,910 --> 01:37:14,239
got a case witnessed by a very very

2582
01:37:18,629 --> 01:37:15,920
credible witness and

2583
01:37:21,510 --> 01:37:18,639
extremely no-nonsense by the book joe

2584
01:37:23,350 --> 01:37:21,520
friday kind of a cop his story never

2585
01:37:24,870 --> 01:37:23,360
changes even after he's telling it

2586
01:37:26,390 --> 01:37:24,880
multiple times

2587
01:37:27,910 --> 01:37:26,400
and there's physical evidence there's

2588
01:37:29,590 --> 01:37:27,920
burned brush and there are landing mark

2589
01:37:31,270 --> 01:37:29,600
imprints well

2590
01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:31,280
blue book had to do something about this

2591
01:37:35,030 --> 01:37:32,800
very quickly so

2592
01:37:37,430 --> 01:37:35,040
heinek was sent to new mexico on just a

2593
01:37:39,030 --> 01:37:37,440
couple hours notice basically to tamp

2594
01:37:41,189 --> 01:37:39,040
down the whole story before it became

2595
01:37:42,950 --> 01:37:41,199
too sensational but there was really

2596
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:42,960
nothing he could do the story was

2597
01:37:48,470 --> 01:37:45,199
already becoming sensational on its own

2598
01:37:50,390 --> 01:37:48,480
because of the humanoids associated with

2599
01:37:52,629 --> 01:37:50,400
the object and there were other

2600
01:37:55,030 --> 01:37:52,639
witnesses it turned out there was a

2601
01:37:56,709 --> 01:37:55,040
a family who were passing through town

2602
01:37:58,950 --> 01:37:56,719
had stopped at a local gas station in

2603
01:38:01,590 --> 01:37:58,960
saccaro as the attendant was filling up

2604
01:38:02,390 --> 01:38:01,600
their car the dad of the family asks him

2605
01:38:03,910 --> 01:38:02,400
so

2606
01:38:06,149 --> 01:38:03,920
you know you got any weird low-flying

2607
01:38:07,750 --> 01:38:06,159
aircraft around this town and the gas

2608
01:38:09,590 --> 01:38:07,760
attendant says well you know we've got

2609
01:38:12,390 --> 01:38:09,600
the air force base and the missile

2610
01:38:14,470 --> 01:38:12,400
grounds close by so there are awful lot

2611
01:38:16,229 --> 01:38:14,480
of helicopters in the sky and the dad

2612
01:38:18,550 --> 01:38:16,239
says oh this was not a helicopter

2613
01:38:20,629 --> 01:38:18,560
something buzzed our station wagon as we

2614
01:38:22,950 --> 01:38:20,639
were driving through town and a minute

2615
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:22,960
after that happened we saw this patrol

2616
01:38:27,750 --> 01:38:25,360
car veer off that highway and drive up

2617
01:38:29,189 --> 01:38:27,760
this gravel hill this direct gravel road

2618
01:38:30,629 --> 01:38:29,199
up this hill well obviously they had

2619
01:38:32,229 --> 01:38:30,639
seen zamora

2620
01:38:34,550 --> 01:38:32,239
so all of a sudden we have a

2621
01:38:37,430 --> 01:38:34,560
corroborating account that supports

2622
01:38:39,750 --> 01:38:37,440
zamora's testimony so heineken is faced

2623
01:38:42,629 --> 01:38:39,760
with this really pretty perfect case

2624
01:38:44,790 --> 01:38:42,639
credible witness physical evidence

2625
01:38:46,950 --> 01:38:44,800
and a backup witness who verifies the

2626
01:38:49,109 --> 01:38:46,960
initial story heineken ended up calling

2627
01:38:50,629 --> 01:38:49,119
this the rosetta stone of ufos because

2628
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:50,639
he felt like the all the right

2629
01:38:54,870 --> 01:38:51,840
information

2630
01:38:56,870 --> 01:38:54,880
to possibly decode the whole ufo problem

2631
01:38:59,109 --> 01:38:56,880
might be right here in this case the

2632
01:39:01,510 --> 01:38:59,119
credibility the witness is interesting

2633
01:39:03,189 --> 01:39:01,520
in this because even among some of the

2634
01:39:05,030 --> 01:39:03,199
the pilot cases the air force

2635
01:39:07,669 --> 01:39:05,040
investigated there was always a

2636
01:39:10,149 --> 01:39:07,679
suggestion that was a misperception or

2637
01:39:11,430 --> 01:39:10,159
an exaggeration but as best i can tell

2638
01:39:13,350 --> 01:39:11,440
there was there was

2639
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:13,360
no no one was impugning

2640
01:39:17,350 --> 01:39:15,920
zamora's character he was considered a

2641
01:39:19,830 --> 01:39:17,360
reliable witness and it wasn't just

2642
01:39:21,830 --> 01:39:19,840
heineken thought so yeah and in fact

2643
01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:21,840
even the people who tried to knock down

2644
01:39:25,030 --> 01:39:23,040
the case

2645
01:39:27,590 --> 01:39:25,040
they never accused zamora of seeing

2646
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:27,600
things or making things up what was

2647
01:39:33,109 --> 01:39:30,000
generally done to sort of explain the

2648
01:39:35,830 --> 01:39:33,119
case away and and hector nia tried this

2649
01:39:37,669 --> 01:39:35,840
strategy on his own the general strategy

2650
01:39:40,790 --> 01:39:37,679
for debunking this case was to say well

2651
01:39:42,629 --> 01:39:40,800
it was obviously a top secret test craft

2652
01:39:44,390 --> 01:39:42,639
that was launched from the nearby

2653
01:39:46,950 --> 01:39:44,400
holloman air force base or the white

2654
01:39:49,750 --> 01:39:46,960
sands missile ground it was probably

2655
01:39:51,350 --> 01:39:49,760
a prototype lunar lander for the apollo

2656
01:39:53,350 --> 01:39:51,360
space missions that's what a lot of

2657
01:39:54,870 --> 01:39:53,360
people thought but even those people

2658
01:39:56,870 --> 01:39:54,880
they never actually tried to say well

2659
01:39:58,629 --> 01:39:56,880
zamora was nuts or zamora didn't know

2660
01:40:00,790 --> 01:39:58,639
what he saw or didn't know what he was

2661
01:40:02,390 --> 01:40:00,800
talking about they accepted that he had

2662
01:40:04,950 --> 01:40:02,400
seen something they just had a different

2663
01:40:06,790 --> 01:40:04,960
interpretation of what that object was

2664
01:40:08,390 --> 01:40:06,800
now i want to get into

2665
01:40:11,030 --> 01:40:08,400
the obvious point

2666
01:40:13,430 --> 01:40:11,040
where ce3 becomes

2667
01:40:14,550 --> 01:40:13,440
the focal point of a major motion

2668
01:40:18,229 --> 01:40:14,560
picture

2669
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:18,239
so early 70s steven spielberg

2670
01:40:23,750 --> 01:40:20,400
is starting work on a new film

2671
01:40:26,550 --> 01:40:23,760
how does dr heineck connect with that

2672
01:40:29,030 --> 01:40:26,560
well early on in my research in the

2673
01:40:31,350 --> 01:40:29,040
kufos files in mark rodgers basement i

2674
01:40:32,629 --> 01:40:31,360
came across a manila folder labeled

2675
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:32,639
spielberg

2676
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:34,080
so of course

2677
01:40:38,310 --> 01:40:36,320
i got excited and i pulled that folder

2678
01:40:40,390 --> 01:40:38,320
out and i sat right down at the table

2679
01:40:42,629 --> 01:40:40,400
and i was gonna just dive right into

2680
01:40:45,590 --> 01:40:42,639
that well it turned out to be a very

2681
01:40:47,109 --> 01:40:45,600
thin folder there was not much in it but

2682
01:40:49,830 --> 01:40:47,119
what there was there was pretty

2683
01:40:52,709 --> 01:40:49,840
eye-opening so the first thing i see is

2684
01:40:54,550 --> 01:40:52,719
a letter a copy of a letter that heinek

2685
01:40:55,830 --> 01:40:54,560
had typed up and written to steven

2686
01:40:58,149 --> 01:40:55,840
spielberg

2687
01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:58,159
in the mid-1970s i think this was

2688
01:41:01,350 --> 01:41:00,560
probably 75 or 76 i think when this took

2689
01:41:03,030 --> 01:41:01,360
place

2690
01:41:05,430 --> 01:41:03,040
so there's this letter that heineken has

2691
01:41:07,510 --> 01:41:05,440
written to steven spielberg saying hey

2692
01:41:09,830 --> 01:41:07,520
mr spielberg i understand you're making

2693
01:41:12,229 --> 01:41:09,840
a movie and you're using my title

2694
01:41:13,750 --> 01:41:12,239
that's okay but i really wish you had

2695
01:41:15,750 --> 01:41:13,760
contacted me

2696
01:41:17,430 --> 01:41:15,760
it's kind of weird that i had to find

2697
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:17,440
out about this from reading a magazine

2698
01:41:22,310 --> 01:41:18,480
article

2699
01:41:24,950 --> 01:41:22,320
so it the letter is it's so painfully

2700
01:41:26,709 --> 01:41:24,960
trying to make the point that spielberg

2701
01:41:28,790 --> 01:41:26,719
has done something wrong but at the same

2702
01:41:31,510 --> 01:41:28,800
time trying to be very gentlemanly and

2703
01:41:33,109 --> 01:41:31,520
diplomatic about it so the way heinek

2704
01:41:35,430 --> 01:41:33,119
has worded this letter it's just kind of

2705
01:41:37,669 --> 01:41:35,440
a masterpiece in sort of

2706
01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:37,679
walking on eggshells but the message

2707
01:41:41,109 --> 01:41:38,800
gets through

2708
01:41:42,950 --> 01:41:41,119
and about two weeks later steven

2709
01:41:44,629 --> 01:41:42,960
spielberg writes back to heinek there

2710
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:44,639
was a copy of that letter in the file as

2711
01:41:49,030 --> 01:41:47,040
well in which he says oh gosh i'm really

2712
01:41:51,430 --> 01:41:49,040
sorry i didn't really realize that the

2713
01:41:53,109 --> 01:41:51,440
title was your property but he said i

2714
01:41:54,870 --> 01:41:53,119
want you to know number one

2715
01:41:56,310 --> 01:41:54,880
we aren't going to use that title we're

2716
01:41:58,790 --> 01:41:56,320
actually going to call the movie watch

2717
01:42:00,790 --> 01:41:58,800
the skies and number two

2718
01:42:03,109 --> 01:42:00,800
i insist that everybody on my creative

2719
01:42:05,590 --> 01:42:03,119
team read your book the ufo experience

2720
01:42:07,990 --> 01:42:05,600
is basically their ufo 101 training

2721
01:42:09,350 --> 01:42:08,000
before they go to work on this movie so

2722
01:42:11,430 --> 01:42:09,360
ultimately they got everything all

2723
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:11,440
ironed out hynek was hired on as

2724
01:42:16,870 --> 01:42:13,679
technical consultant for the movie and

2725
01:42:18,550 --> 01:42:16,880
he was hired on to be on set for

2726
01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:18,560
no more than three days

2727
01:42:22,870 --> 01:42:21,040
to render services and he ended up

2728
01:42:26,070 --> 01:42:22,880
spending those three days not in

2729
01:42:28,950 --> 01:42:26,080
hollywood but in alabama close to you

2730
01:42:31,510 --> 01:42:28,960
kurt they ended up doing they rented a

2731
01:42:32,629 --> 01:42:31,520
airplane hangar in alabama in mobile

2732
01:42:34,550 --> 01:42:32,639
alabama

2733
01:42:35,990 --> 01:42:34,560
because there weren't any sound stages

2734
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:36,000
in hollywood that were big enough for

2735
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:37,600
what spielberg wanted to do with the

2736
01:42:42,229 --> 01:42:40,880
climax of his movie so the whole final

2737
01:42:44,550 --> 01:42:42,239
act of the movie that takes place at

2738
01:42:46,709 --> 01:42:44,560
this secret ufo landing base in the

2739
01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:46,719
shadow of devil's tower wyoming that was

2740
01:42:51,189 --> 01:42:49,040
all constructed in this airplane hangar

2741
01:42:52,870 --> 01:42:51,199
so heineken spends three days on set

2742
01:42:54,550 --> 01:42:52,880
being technical consulter and just

2743
01:42:57,350 --> 01:42:54,560
basically enjoying the hell out of it

2744
01:43:00,390 --> 01:42:57,360
out of himself and his time on set and

2745
01:43:03,430 --> 01:43:00,400
they shoot this uh cameo shot that ends

2746
01:43:04,870 --> 01:43:03,440
up being about six seconds long and it

2747
01:43:06,629 --> 01:43:04,880
comes in

2748
01:43:08,390 --> 01:43:06,639
right around the time the huge alien

2749
01:43:10,950 --> 01:43:08,400
mothership has appeared and has

2750
01:43:12,709 --> 01:43:10,960
descended on the ufo landing site

2751
01:43:15,189 --> 01:43:12,719
and it's shining brilliant light

2752
01:43:17,750 --> 01:43:15,199
everywhere and all of these scientists

2753
01:43:19,830 --> 01:43:17,760
and technicians in their white lab coats

2754
01:43:21,350 --> 01:43:19,840
are all kind of hanging back

2755
01:43:24,470 --> 01:43:21,360
not wanting to get close to the

2756
01:43:26,629 --> 01:43:24,480
mothership but then all of a sudden this

2757
01:43:28,070 --> 01:43:26,639
older bespectacled gentleman comes

2758
01:43:30,070 --> 01:43:28,080
weaving his way through all these

2759
01:43:32,229 --> 01:43:30,080
white-coated scientists

2760
01:43:34,310 --> 01:43:32,239
and he's fiddling with his pipe and he's

2761
01:43:35,750 --> 01:43:34,320
stroking his goatee and he's the only

2762
01:43:38,629 --> 01:43:35,760
person in the shot who's actually

2763
01:43:40,070 --> 01:43:38,639
striding forward towards the mothership

2764
01:43:42,550 --> 01:43:40,080
and i think it's just a beautiful moment

2765
01:43:44,950 --> 01:43:42,560
for inic because it just really shows in

2766
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:44,960
six seconds spielberg showed exactly who

2767
01:43:48,870 --> 01:43:47,040
heinek was he was a guy who would keep

2768
01:43:50,550 --> 01:43:48,880
going forward he was the guy who'd be

2769
01:43:53,270 --> 01:43:50,560
walking towards the mystery not holding

2770
01:43:54,310 --> 01:43:53,280
back also he tend to be kind of low-key

2771
01:43:55,990 --> 01:43:54,320
kind of guy

2772
01:43:57,350 --> 01:43:56,000
that's the impression i had of him there

2773
01:43:59,750 --> 01:43:57,360
but in the end

2774
01:44:01,030 --> 01:43:59,760
he basically was the main influence for

2775
01:44:03,590 --> 01:44:01,040
this movie

2776
01:44:04,709 --> 01:44:03,600
at least his book and everything else

2777
01:44:06,629 --> 01:44:04,719
did they

2778
01:44:08,390 --> 01:44:06,639
pay him more than three days work or was

2779
01:44:10,149 --> 01:44:08,400
that it well

2780
01:44:12,470 --> 01:44:10,159
actually in that file there was also a

2781
01:44:15,669 --> 01:44:12,480
copy of the contract that heineck signed

2782
01:44:17,270 --> 01:44:15,679
with the producers of the movie and i go

2783
01:44:19,430 --> 01:44:17,280
over all this in the book if i remember

2784
01:44:21,270 --> 01:44:19,440
right what they paid him was

2785
01:44:22,870 --> 01:44:21,280
for the rights to use the title close

2786
01:44:25,189 --> 01:44:22,880
encounters of the third kind they paid

2787
01:44:27,030 --> 01:44:25,199
him a thousand dollars

2788
01:44:28,229 --> 01:44:27,040
they paid him an additional thousand

2789
01:44:32,229 --> 01:44:28,239
dollars

2790
01:44:33,910 --> 01:44:32,239
for permission to um dramatize any of

2791
01:44:37,270 --> 01:44:33,920
the stories that heinrich told in the

2792
01:44:39,510 --> 01:44:37,280
book and then they paid him 500 a day

2793
01:44:41,590 --> 01:44:39,520
for each of the three days he was on set

2794
01:44:43,430 --> 01:44:41,600
as technical consultant so all told he

2795
01:44:45,830 --> 01:44:43,440
made 3 500

2796
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:45,840
now you have to remember that's 3500

2797
01:44:50,310 --> 01:44:48,400
dollars in 1977 which makes a big

2798
01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:50,320
difference but you also have to remember

2799
01:44:56,310 --> 01:44:52,480
that even though spielberg's first movie

2800
01:44:58,390 --> 01:44:56,320
jaws was a huge huge mega hit nobody had

2801
01:45:00,830 --> 01:44:58,400
any idea what kind of business close

2802
01:45:03,350 --> 01:45:00,840
encounters would do it had an awful

2803
01:45:04,709 --> 01:45:03,360
title you know as much as we love the

2804
01:45:07,189 --> 01:45:04,719
title now as much as it's become a

2805
01:45:08,870 --> 01:45:07,199
cultural icon people hated the title at

2806
01:45:10,950 --> 01:45:08,880
the time close encounters of the third

2807
01:45:13,030 --> 01:45:10,960
kind what a stupid name for a movie so

2808
01:45:15,030 --> 01:45:13,040
nobody knew how well the movie would do

2809
01:45:17,270 --> 01:45:15,040
so the fact that heinek was paid very

2810
01:45:18,709 --> 01:45:17,280
little for his services is kind of

2811
01:45:21,109 --> 01:45:18,719
offset by

2812
01:45:22,870 --> 01:45:21,119
the reality of the situation of course

2813
01:45:24,629 --> 01:45:22,880
the movie producers were hedging their

2814
01:45:26,790 --> 01:45:24,639
bets they didn't know

2815
01:45:29,270 --> 01:45:26,800
how well the movie would do let's do our

2816
01:45:38,950 --> 01:45:29,280
break more to come mark o'connell and

2817
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:43,669
thank you for listening to gcn

2818
01:45:48,149 --> 01:45:44,590
visit

2819
01:45:53,750 --> 01:45:50,470
we also have swag you know we have all

2820
01:45:56,390 --> 01:45:53,760
these exclusive power cast things that

2821
01:45:59,669 --> 01:45:56,400
you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

2822
01:46:03,189 --> 01:45:59,679
so different items and entails t-shirts

2823
01:46:06,470 --> 01:46:03,199
sleeves for notebook computers ipad

2824
01:46:08,709 --> 01:46:06,480
cases mouse pads the power cast jumbo

2825
01:46:10,470 --> 01:46:08,719
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

2826
01:46:13,510 --> 01:46:10,480
jackets and stuff like that for men and

2827
01:46:15,669 --> 01:46:13,520
women we have a power cast aluminum

2828
01:46:19,149 --> 01:46:15,679
water bottle all this stuff you go to

2829
01:46:23,669 --> 01:46:21,030
store.thepowercast.com what makes it

2830
01:46:26,709 --> 01:46:23,679
special is that the items are the best

2831
01:46:28,550 --> 01:46:26,719
quality great t-shirts fabrics and they

2832
01:46:30,070 --> 01:46:28,560
have our official logo on them that's

2833
01:46:33,189 --> 01:46:30,080
what makes them special in multiple

2834
01:46:35,990 --> 01:46:33,199
sizes and colors we even have stuff for

2835
01:46:38,310 --> 01:46:36,000
children stuff for women stuff for men

2836
01:46:41,270 --> 01:46:38,320
we have all sorts of sizes like small up

2837
01:46:44,030 --> 01:46:41,280
to x a lot of good stuff that's the swag

2838
01:46:46,629 --> 01:46:44,040
from the power cast to go to

2839
01:46:49,669 --> 01:46:46,639
store.thepowercast.com stop by and take

2840
01:46:52,550 --> 01:46:50,950
did you know that your children are the

2841
01:46:54,310 --> 01:46:52,560
most vulnerable to identity theft it's

2842
01:46:55,830 --> 01:46:54,320
no surprise with all the mobile phones

2843
01:46:58,070 --> 01:46:55,840
social media platforms that your

2844
01:46:59,750 --> 01:46:58,080
children will eventually be a victim to

2845
01:47:01,990 --> 01:46:59,760
one of the most significant crimes of

2846
01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:02,000
the 21st century identity theft don't

2847
01:47:05,590 --> 01:47:03,920
let that happen cover your whole family

2848
01:47:08,270 --> 01:47:05,600
your spouse your children and your

2849
01:47:10,149 --> 01:47:08,280
parents right now by calling liberty id

2850
01:47:12,950 --> 01:47:10,159
libertyid.com is where you go for a

2851
01:47:15,990 --> 01:47:12,960
significant discount just by using gcn

2852
01:47:19,910 --> 01:47:16,000
at checkout or you can call 844 444

2853
01:47:21,830 --> 01:47:19,920
liberty that's 844 4444 liberty water is

2854
01:47:23,990 --> 01:47:21,840
the single most important thing your

2855
01:47:26,390 --> 01:47:24,000
body needs so you want to be sure it's

2856
01:47:29,350 --> 01:47:26,400
the best for you and your family since

2857
01:47:31,669 --> 01:47:29,360
2005 thousands have depended on berkey

2858
01:47:34,070 --> 01:47:31,679
purified water the berkey guy provides

2859
01:47:36,470 --> 01:47:34,080
the lowest priced filtration systems in

2860
01:47:39,510 --> 01:47:36,480
every size for incredibly delicious

2861
01:47:41,189 --> 01:47:39,520
water now and in an emergency get to go

2862
01:47:54,050 --> 01:47:41,199
berkey dot com or call

2863
01:47:59,910 --> 01:47:56,629
[Applause]

2864
01:48:03,590 --> 01:47:59,920
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2865
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:03,600
standard of paranormal radio

2866
01:48:08,170 --> 01:48:04,800
and now

2867
01:48:12,070 --> 01:48:08,180
here's jane steinberg

2868
01:48:18,870 --> 01:48:14,910
for those who haven't bothered mid

2869
01:48:20,550 --> 01:48:18,880
1970s dollars three thousand dollars is

2870
01:48:23,270 --> 01:48:20,560
in two thousand

2871
01:48:27,109 --> 01:48:23,280
seventeen thirteen thousand nine hundred

2872
01:48:30,149 --> 01:48:27,119
fifty five dollars and sixty one cents

2873
01:48:32,390 --> 01:48:30,159
which isn't a lot either

2874
01:48:34,390 --> 01:48:32,400
but it sounds better than 3 500 bucks

2875
01:48:36,629 --> 01:48:34,400
pizza related trivia

2876
01:48:38,390 --> 01:48:36,639
i don't know how well uh heinek's book

2877
01:48:41,189 --> 01:48:38,400
sold but

2878
01:48:43,510 --> 01:48:41,199
if you have a copy of the novelization

2879
01:48:45,830 --> 01:48:43,520
of close encounters of the third kind

2880
01:48:48,629 --> 01:48:45,840
heineken wrote the epilogue and it's

2881
01:48:51,669 --> 01:48:48,639
non-fiction and it talks about ufos and

2882
01:48:53,830 --> 01:48:51,679
it even has a pitch to uh you know check

2883
01:48:56,070 --> 01:48:53,840
out what qfos has to offer

2884
01:48:57,990 --> 01:48:56,080
and uh so you know if people stuck with

2885
01:49:00,070 --> 01:48:58,000
that book the millions are at it to the

2886
01:49:01,030 --> 01:49:00,080
end you know this was his one of his

2887
01:49:02,390 --> 01:49:01,040
greatest

2888
01:49:04,310 --> 01:49:02,400
literary hits

2889
01:49:05,910 --> 01:49:04,320
yeah absolutely and and they did the

2890
01:49:07,750 --> 01:49:05,920
same thing with the movie posters for

2891
01:49:09,910 --> 01:49:07,760
close encounters of the third kind

2892
01:49:11,590 --> 01:49:09,920
somewhere now i haven't been able to

2893
01:49:13,430 --> 01:49:11,600
find a copy of the poster to check this

2894
01:49:15,750 --> 01:49:13,440
out myself but somewhere

2895
01:49:18,310 --> 01:49:15,760
on the bottom of the movie poster

2896
01:49:19,990 --> 01:49:18,320
there is contact information for kufos

2897
01:49:21,189 --> 01:49:20,000
so yeah between the between the

2898
01:49:24,470 --> 01:49:21,199
paperback

2899
01:49:26,470 --> 01:49:24,480
and the movie poster kufos got an

2900
01:49:30,149 --> 01:49:26,480
unbelievable amount of exposure

2901
01:49:32,229 --> 01:49:30,159
absolutely priceless and of course

2902
01:49:33,030 --> 01:49:32,239
kufos's phone started ringing off the

2903
01:49:34,950 --> 01:49:33,040
hook

2904
01:49:37,750 --> 01:49:34,960
everybody who watched close encounter it

2905
01:49:39,590 --> 01:49:37,760
turned out had a ufo story to tell

2906
01:49:42,310 --> 01:49:39,600
whether it was their own experience or

2907
01:49:44,229 --> 01:49:42,320
the experience of a friend or a relative

2908
01:49:46,629 --> 01:49:44,239
everybody started calling kufos to

2909
01:49:47,430 --> 01:49:46,639
report ufo sightings

2910
01:49:48,709 --> 01:49:47,440
now

2911
01:49:51,510 --> 01:49:48,719
when i

2912
01:49:53,830 --> 01:49:51,520
interviewed dr heineck in the mid 70s

2913
01:49:55,830 --> 01:49:53,840
you know he had gone beyond

2914
01:49:58,470 --> 01:49:55,840
accepting ufos or possibly the

2915
01:50:01,830 --> 01:49:58,480
interplanetary explanation and he had

2916
01:50:04,070 --> 01:50:01,840
something more 4d in concept so let's

2917
01:50:06,390 --> 01:50:04,080
look at that here he's getting more

2918
01:50:08,390 --> 01:50:06,400
serious involved in this subject

2919
01:50:10,550 --> 01:50:08,400
when did he say you know what

2920
01:50:12,149 --> 01:50:10,560
this is real this is strange

2921
01:50:13,430 --> 01:50:12,159
this is something we really need to

2922
01:50:15,510 --> 01:50:13,440
understand

2923
01:50:18,470 --> 01:50:15,520
that is such an interesting

2924
01:50:19,990 --> 01:50:18,480
transition in his thinking and i still

2925
01:50:22,629 --> 01:50:20,000
kind of marvel at the way he was

2926
01:50:25,510 --> 01:50:22,639
actually able to do this

2927
01:50:28,709 --> 01:50:25,520
he had in his younger days he had had a

2928
01:50:30,229 --> 01:50:28,719
definite pronounced spiritual bent and

2929
01:50:31,830 --> 01:50:30,239
he was never religious in the

2930
01:50:33,430 --> 01:50:31,840
traditional sense

2931
01:50:35,590 --> 01:50:33,440
but he did follow the teachings of

2932
01:50:37,750 --> 01:50:35,600
certain spiritualists he was fascinated

2933
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:37,760
in the teachings of

2934
01:50:41,109 --> 01:50:39,360
the rosicrucians

2935
01:50:43,030 --> 01:50:41,119
he was fascinated by the writings and

2936
01:50:45,510 --> 01:50:43,040
teachings of a mystic named rudolph

2937
01:50:47,910 --> 01:50:45,520
steiner who believed essentially that

2938
01:50:49,030 --> 01:50:47,920
there was a parallel universe that we

2939
01:50:51,270 --> 01:50:49,040
could enter

2940
01:50:53,430 --> 01:50:51,280
at will anytime we wanted to if we could

2941
01:50:55,270 --> 01:50:53,440
only develop our inner our innate

2942
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:55,280
faculties our innate abilities to be

2943
01:50:58,310 --> 01:50:57,360
able to see this dimension and cross

2944
01:50:59,669 --> 01:50:58,320
into it

2945
01:51:01,669 --> 01:50:59,679
so these were ideas that were really

2946
01:51:02,470 --> 01:51:01,679
fascinating to heineken his youth

2947
01:51:04,550 --> 01:51:02,480
well

2948
01:51:06,790 --> 01:51:04,560
he gets his phd he gets his first

2949
01:51:08,870 --> 01:51:06,800
teaching position he can't be talking

2950
01:51:11,189 --> 01:51:08,880
about stuff like that in the classroom

2951
01:51:13,669 --> 01:51:11,199
so he makes this very neat transition

2952
01:51:16,790 --> 01:51:13,679
from a young student who's fascinated by

2953
01:51:19,590 --> 01:51:16,800
mysticism into an academic a very

2954
01:51:21,990 --> 01:51:19,600
serious-minded academic who is all about

2955
01:51:23,750 --> 01:51:22,000
the facts the facts and nothing but the

2956
01:51:26,070 --> 01:51:23,760
facts but then

2957
01:51:27,830 --> 01:51:26,080
later in life in his in his final years

2958
01:51:29,910 --> 01:51:27,840
as he was facing death when he was

2959
01:51:32,229 --> 01:51:29,920
diagnosed with cancer and i talked with

2960
01:51:34,390 --> 01:51:32,239
his son paul about this quite a bit his

2961
01:51:36,709 --> 01:51:34,400
dad returned to that

2962
01:51:38,070 --> 01:51:36,719
that spiritual side of things and he

2963
01:51:40,790 --> 01:51:38,080
started thinking

2964
01:51:42,149 --> 01:51:40,800
in terms of the ufo phenomenon as

2965
01:51:45,589 --> 01:51:42,159
possibly

2966
01:51:47,750 --> 01:51:45,599
a psychic phenomenon he started thinking

2967
01:51:49,910 --> 01:51:47,760
that perhaps instead of coming here from

2968
01:51:51,510 --> 01:51:49,920
other planets maybe these were were

2969
01:51:53,589 --> 01:51:51,520
objects or manifestations that were

2970
01:51:55,030 --> 01:51:53,599
coming here from a parallel universe

2971
01:51:57,350 --> 01:51:55,040
just like the one that rudolph steiner

2972
01:51:59,910 --> 01:51:57,360
had described he started wondering if

2973
01:52:01,109 --> 01:51:59,920
maybe ufo events had

2974
01:52:03,669 --> 01:52:01,119
a strong

2975
01:52:05,990 --> 01:52:03,679
psychological or even psychic angle to

2976
01:52:07,430 --> 01:52:06,000
them he would speculate about our

2977
01:52:09,109 --> 01:52:07,440
ability to travel through space is

2978
01:52:11,350 --> 01:52:09,119
limited by the speed of light but how do

2979
01:52:14,070 --> 01:52:11,360
we measure the speed of thought what if

2980
01:52:15,350 --> 01:52:14,080
a ufo encounter is actually

2981
01:52:16,950 --> 01:52:15,360
in part

2982
01:52:18,149 --> 01:52:16,960
what if it's some sort of thought

2983
01:52:19,830 --> 01:52:18,159
projection

2984
01:52:22,070 --> 01:52:19,840
from some

2985
01:52:24,629 --> 01:52:22,080
phenomenon or entity from another

2986
01:52:26,790 --> 01:52:24,639
dimension or billions of miles away how

2987
01:52:28,390 --> 01:52:26,800
do we know it sounds like the cue

2988
01:52:30,390 --> 01:52:28,400
continuum

2989
01:52:33,030 --> 01:52:30,400
it kind of does you're right that's an

2990
01:52:34,709 --> 01:52:33,040
excellent example tell our listeners

2991
01:52:38,470 --> 01:52:34,719
what that means you got to be into star

2992
01:52:40,950 --> 01:52:38,480
trek well the q continuum is basically a

2993
01:52:42,790 --> 01:52:40,960
parallel universe where super beings can

2994
01:52:45,830 --> 01:52:42,800
basically bend

2995
01:52:47,750 --> 01:52:45,840
matter time and reality at their whim

2996
01:52:50,709 --> 01:52:47,760
would you say that's a good description

2997
01:52:55,350 --> 01:52:52,790
and there's a super being from the q

2998
01:52:57,510 --> 01:52:55,360
continuum who visits our universe

2999
01:52:59,430 --> 01:52:57,520
and likes to play with captain picard

3000
01:53:01,189 --> 01:52:59,440
likes to have fun and games with captain

3001
01:53:02,709 --> 01:53:01,199
picard it's been a long time since i've

3002
01:53:04,390 --> 01:53:02,719
seen any of the episodes so i might not

3003
01:53:06,149 --> 01:53:04,400
have gotten the the explanation exactly

3004
01:53:08,390 --> 01:53:06,159
right but that's my recollection of it

3005
01:53:10,550 --> 01:53:08,400
it's a similar thing it's it's this idea

3006
01:53:12,870 --> 01:53:10,560
that the reason we can't understand this

3007
01:53:14,870 --> 01:53:12,880
phenomenon is because it's coming from a

3008
01:53:16,870 --> 01:53:14,880
different universe that has different

3009
01:53:19,189 --> 01:53:16,880
rules and different limitations and

3010
01:53:22,229 --> 01:53:19,199
different boundaries but somehow it's

3011
01:53:24,470 --> 01:53:22,239
found a way to come into our universe

3012
01:53:26,629 --> 01:53:24,480
where it completely baffles us

3013
01:53:29,350 --> 01:53:26,639
well the factor of b when i say cue

3014
01:53:31,990 --> 01:53:29,360
continuum in the sense messing with us

3015
01:53:34,229 --> 01:53:32,000
is involved because q was messing

3016
01:53:36,310 --> 01:53:34,239
with captain picard and of course if you

3017
01:53:38,790 --> 01:53:36,320
didn't have an actor like john de lancie

3018
01:53:40,550 --> 01:53:38,800
it would never have been pulled off you

3019
01:53:45,189 --> 01:53:40,560
had to have the right interaction with

3020
01:53:47,510 --> 01:53:45,199
him and patrick stewart for this to work

3021
01:53:50,310 --> 01:53:47,520
yes exactly i have i actually have a

3022
01:53:51,750 --> 01:53:50,320
john de lancie story

3023
01:53:52,870 --> 01:53:51,760
this is off the subject but i'm just

3024
01:53:54,470 --> 01:53:52,880
going to tell this quick story if you

3025
01:53:55,990 --> 01:53:54,480
want to cut it out feel free

3026
01:53:58,229 --> 01:53:56,000
i once did a science fiction you

3027
01:53:59,669 --> 01:53:58,239
mentioned in milwaukee in which john de

3028
01:54:01,430 --> 01:53:59,679
lancie was one of the panelists and i

3029
01:54:03,430 --> 01:54:01,440
was one of the panelists and at the end

3030
01:54:05,910 --> 01:54:03,440
of the day all of the all of the guest

3031
01:54:07,189 --> 01:54:05,920
speakers got up on stages this one giant

3032
01:54:09,350 --> 01:54:07,199
mega panel

3033
01:54:11,510 --> 01:54:09,360
and they opened it up to questions from

3034
01:54:13,589 --> 01:54:11,520
the audience so people would ask me

3035
01:54:14,950 --> 01:54:13,599
questions about you know my star trek

3036
01:54:17,030 --> 01:54:14,960
writing well how did you get your break

3037
01:54:19,350 --> 01:54:17,040
how do you come up with your story ideas

3038
01:54:21,750 --> 01:54:19,360
and every time i started to answer a

3039
01:54:24,149 --> 01:54:21,760
question john de lancie would make some

3040
01:54:25,990 --> 01:54:24,159
stupid joke about what i was saying and

3041
01:54:27,990 --> 01:54:26,000
the crowd would just eat it up they

3042
01:54:29,350 --> 01:54:28,000
laughed their heads off and i was

3043
01:54:31,430 --> 01:54:29,360
getting really frustrated because i

3044
01:54:32,870 --> 01:54:31,440
wanted to tell delancey to shut up and

3045
01:54:35,350 --> 01:54:32,880
let me talk

3046
01:54:37,189 --> 01:54:35,360
but then i finally realized oh no this

3047
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:37,199
is what people came here for this is

3048
01:54:41,990 --> 01:54:39,360
what they're expecting i am john de

3049
01:54:43,990 --> 01:54:42,000
lancie's straight man and so i accepted

3050
01:54:45,990 --> 01:54:44,000
my fate as john zelanzi's straight man

3051
01:54:48,149 --> 01:54:46,000
it's a very memorable moment in my life

3052
01:54:50,790 --> 01:54:48,159
does he have that kind of sardonic sense

3053
01:54:53,030 --> 01:54:50,800
of humor in real life absolutely he's

3054
01:54:54,629 --> 01:54:53,040
just unstoppable i mean give him

3055
01:54:56,709 --> 01:54:54,639
anything and he will make a joke out of

3056
01:54:58,790 --> 01:54:56,719
it i was stunned

3057
01:55:01,109 --> 01:54:58,800
the more i watch some of these tv shows

3058
01:55:03,430 --> 01:55:01,119
the more i realize especially when you

3059
01:55:05,109 --> 01:55:03,440
have a show that goes on year after year

3060
01:55:07,350 --> 01:55:05,119
you have to put

3061
01:55:09,830 --> 01:55:07,360
a lot of the personality of the actor in

3062
01:55:11,270 --> 01:55:09,840
there to keep it genuine

3063
01:55:12,870 --> 01:55:11,280
yeah i definitely think that's the case

3064
01:55:16,709 --> 01:55:12,880
with him

3065
01:55:18,709 --> 01:55:16,719
but yeah point is the cue continuum is

3066
01:55:20,390 --> 01:55:18,719
right along the lines of what heineken

3067
01:55:22,310 --> 01:55:20,400
was starting to think of as

3068
01:55:24,870 --> 01:55:22,320
possible explanations for the ufo

3069
01:55:26,390 --> 01:55:24,880
phenomenon another piece of trivia which

3070
01:55:28,470 --> 01:55:26,400
you know about

3071
01:55:31,189 --> 01:55:28,480
we have another son of dr j allen high

3072
01:55:34,310 --> 01:55:31,199
nickname of joe heineck

3073
01:55:35,589 --> 01:55:34,320
who's an oscar-winning special effects

3074
01:55:38,629 --> 01:55:35,599
person

3075
01:55:39,510 --> 01:55:38,639
did he become interested or do you know

3076
01:55:43,430 --> 01:55:39,520
in

3077
01:55:44,629 --> 01:55:43,440
of

3078
01:55:46,950 --> 01:55:44,639
his father

3079
01:55:48,709 --> 01:55:46,960
that is a mystery i was never able to

3080
01:55:50,390 --> 01:55:48,719
solve because paul

3081
01:55:52,149 --> 01:55:50,400
paul heineck would always promise me

3082
01:55:53,990 --> 01:55:52,159
that he would set me up to talk with his

3083
01:55:55,669 --> 01:55:54,000
brothers and his one sister and for

3084
01:55:57,589 --> 01:55:55,679
whatever reasons it never actually

3085
01:56:00,149 --> 01:55:57,599
happened so i never got a chance to find

3086
01:56:01,669 --> 01:56:00,159
out but i will i also have another funny

3087
01:56:02,390 --> 01:56:01,679
little side story along those lines

3088
01:56:04,149 --> 01:56:02,400
though

3089
01:56:05,990 --> 01:56:04,159
as part of my research for the book i

3090
01:56:08,390 --> 01:56:06,000
had the chance to meet the great douglas

3091
01:56:10,310 --> 01:56:08,400
tremble the special effects designer

3092
01:56:12,950 --> 01:56:10,320
four close encounters of the third kind

3093
01:56:15,350 --> 01:56:12,960
and many other huge science fiction hits

3094
01:56:17,589 --> 01:56:15,360
of the 70s and 80s

3095
01:56:19,910 --> 01:56:17,599
and i got a chance to meet doug at his

3096
01:56:21,430 --> 01:56:19,920
home in connecticut and we did an

3097
01:56:22,470 --> 01:56:21,440
interview for the book

3098
01:56:24,629 --> 01:56:22,480
and

3099
01:56:28,070 --> 01:56:24,639
my first question was

3100
01:56:29,990 --> 01:56:28,080
because doug it turns out is a huge huge

3101
01:56:32,149 --> 01:56:30,000
ufo enthusiast

3102
01:56:33,669 --> 01:56:32,159
so my first question was what kinds of

3103
01:56:35,990 --> 01:56:33,679
talks did you have on set with dr

3104
01:56:37,109 --> 01:56:36,000
heineck about ufos and he said you know

3105
01:56:38,790 --> 01:56:37,119
what mark

3106
01:56:40,470 --> 01:56:38,800
i've always kicked myself for this but

3107
01:56:43,669 --> 01:56:40,480
he said i never actually sat down and

3108
01:56:45,910 --> 01:56:43,679
talked to him about ufos i was dying to

3109
01:56:47,430 --> 01:56:45,920
but those three days on set were so busy

3110
01:56:50,470 --> 01:56:47,440
i never had a chance to actually sit

3111
01:56:52,229 --> 01:56:50,480
down and talk to him but he said i did

3112
01:56:54,310 --> 01:56:52,239
have a chance to work with his son later

3113
01:56:56,310 --> 01:56:54,320
on and it turns out

3114
01:56:58,149 --> 01:56:56,320
it's the same son who divide who got the

3115
01:56:59,189 --> 01:56:58,159
oscar for the special effects for

3116
01:57:01,510 --> 01:56:59,199
predator

3117
01:57:03,109 --> 01:57:01,520
he had come out to connecticut and spent

3118
01:57:05,669 --> 01:57:03,119
several months working with doug

3119
01:57:07,270 --> 01:57:05,679
trumbull on i believe one of his motion

3120
01:57:09,990 --> 01:57:07,280
simulation rides

3121
01:57:11,589 --> 01:57:10,000
which is basically what most of what

3122
01:57:13,830 --> 01:57:11,599
doug does these days

3123
01:57:15,830 --> 01:57:13,840
so he is so even though he hadn't talked

3124
01:57:16,950 --> 01:57:15,840
with dr heineck the man

3125
01:57:18,629 --> 01:57:16,960
he also

3126
01:57:20,709 --> 01:57:18,639
turned out several years later to have

3127
01:57:22,550 --> 01:57:20,719
the opportunity to have long talks with

3128
01:57:24,629 --> 01:57:22,560
mr heineck the younger while they were

3129
01:57:26,790 --> 01:57:24,639
working together on a completely

3130
01:57:28,950 --> 01:57:26,800
unrelated project we've got more to come

3131
01:57:31,189 --> 01:57:28,960
with mark o'connell and listener

3132
01:57:33,270 --> 01:57:31,199
questions curtis collins is guest

3133
01:57:35,830 --> 01:57:33,280
co-host and by the way this week on

3134
01:57:38,629 --> 01:57:35,840
after the power cast we'll probably hear

3135
01:57:47,589 --> 01:57:38,639
from the one only inimitable paul

3136
01:57:50,629 --> 01:57:49,669
neighbors i want to tell you about my

3137
01:57:52,950 --> 01:57:50,639
favorite

3138
01:57:55,030 --> 01:57:52,960
graphics app it's the award-winning

3139
01:57:57,189 --> 01:57:55,040
graphic converter you know graphic

3140
01:58:00,310 --> 01:57:57,199
inverter is the universal genius for

3141
01:58:02,629 --> 01:58:00,320
photo editing on your mac join over one

3142
01:58:05,510 --> 01:58:02,639
and a half million loyal users for this

3143
01:58:07,430 --> 01:58:05,520
swiss army knife photo editing app

3144
01:58:09,830 --> 01:58:07,440
it gives you all you expect from a top

3145
01:58:12,149 --> 01:58:09,840
flight image editing app with tons of

3146
01:58:15,430 --> 01:58:12,159
features and most important

3147
01:58:17,910 --> 01:58:15,440
it's easy to use it's also far less

3148
01:58:20,390 --> 01:58:17,920
expensive than that other app that you

3149
01:58:22,229 --> 01:58:20,400
can only get by subscription you know

3150
01:58:24,550 --> 01:58:22,239
the one i'm talking about

3151
01:58:27,030 --> 01:58:24,560
what's more you can get twenty percent

3152
01:58:29,030 --> 01:58:27,040
off with your order right now

3153
01:58:31,030 --> 01:58:29,040
so write this down to learn about

3154
01:58:33,669 --> 01:58:31,040
graphic converter

3155
01:58:38,149 --> 01:58:33,679
go to www dot

3156
01:58:39,669 --> 01:58:38,159
lemkesoft dot d e slash gene

3157
01:58:45,669 --> 01:58:39,679
let me spell that

3158
01:58:47,189 --> 01:58:45,679
w w w dot l e m k e soft dot d e

3159
01:58:49,109 --> 01:58:47,199
slash gene

3160
01:58:50,950 --> 01:58:49,119
hi this is dr joel wallick the mineral

3161
01:58:53,430 --> 01:58:50,960
doctor you've heard me talk about 90 for

3162
01:58:55,910 --> 01:58:53,440
life for years 60 minerals 16 vitamins

3163
01:58:57,350 --> 01:58:55,920
12 amino acids 2 fatty acids you may not

3164
01:58:59,350 --> 01:58:57,360
know this that i've actually designed

3165
01:59:01,189 --> 01:58:59,360
arthur decks or animals

3166
01:59:03,830 --> 01:59:01,199
that's right

3167
01:59:05,350 --> 01:59:03,840
your pets need 90 for life too

3168
01:59:08,790 --> 01:59:05,360
get this essential pet product by

3169
01:59:14,950 --> 01:59:10,750
that's

3170
01:59:18,709 --> 01:59:16,629
two 877-279-9422

3171
01:59:20,310 --> 01:59:18,719
are you retired or facing retirement and

3172
01:59:21,830 --> 01:59:20,320
you're afraid your income is going to be

3173
01:59:23,589 --> 01:59:21,840
less than you'd like i'm pharmacist

3174
01:59:25,350 --> 01:59:23,599
keith dr wallach the dead doctors don't

3175
01:59:27,189 --> 01:59:25,360
lie guy and i want to show you a

3176
01:59:28,629 --> 01:59:27,199
low-cost way to create your own business

3177
01:59:30,470 --> 01:59:28,639
working around your current schedule

3178
01:59:32,310 --> 01:59:30,480
creating extra income that will last for

3179
01:59:34,229 --> 01:59:32,320
years to come by joining dr wallach's

3180
01:59:36,430 --> 01:59:34,239
crusades writing his message of better

3181
01:59:37,830 --> 01:59:36,440
health to learn more visit

3182
01:59:40,830 --> 01:59:37,840
radio.recordedvideo.com that's

3183
01:59:45,270 --> 01:59:40,840
radio.reportedvideo.com

3184
01:59:49,189 --> 01:59:45,280
radio.recordedvideo.com or call 866 256

3185
01:59:54,070 --> 01:59:51,589
by now you know that wireless technology

3186
01:59:56,149 --> 01:59:54,080
like cell phones do in fact pose dangers

3187
01:59:58,310 --> 01:59:56,159
to the health and privacy of everyone

3188
01:59:59,750 --> 01:59:58,320
block it pocket's wide range of products

3189
02:00:02,310 --> 01:59:59,760
are unmatched in providing the

3190
02:00:04,870 --> 02:00:02,320
protection you deserve no scare tactics

3191
02:00:07,109 --> 02:00:04,880
just common sense blockapocket.com

3192
02:00:09,430 --> 02:00:07,119
offers quality american-made options to

3193
02:00:12,070 --> 02:00:09,440
alleviate and eliminate these invisible

3194
02:00:15,390 --> 02:00:12,080
dangers learn more at blockapocket.com

3195
02:00:17,750 --> 02:00:15,400
or call 888-315-9618

3196
02:00:18,870 --> 02:00:17,760
blockitpocket.com enhancing health and

3197
02:00:20,629 --> 02:00:18,880
privacy

3198
02:00:22,790 --> 02:00:20,639
hi friends let me ask you a question why

3199
02:00:24,790 --> 02:00:22,800
do we get car insurance for our cars

3200
02:00:26,629 --> 02:00:24,800
fire insurance for our homes and life

3201
02:00:28,470 --> 02:00:26,639
insurance for our lives and not even

3202
02:00:30,709 --> 02:00:28,480
consider identity insurance for our

3203
02:00:32,070 --> 02:00:30,719
identities i mean isn't our identity one

3204
02:00:34,070 --> 02:00:32,080
of the most important commodities we

3205
02:00:35,830 --> 02:00:34,080
have well of course it is my friends at

3206
02:00:37,350 --> 02:00:35,840
liberty id they understand this and

3207
02:00:39,189 --> 02:00:37,360
that's why they're the leading provider

3208
02:00:41,510 --> 02:00:39,199
of turnkey solutions to america's

3209
02:00:43,910 --> 02:00:41,520
fastest growing crime identity theft are

3210
02:00:47,589 --> 02:00:43,920
you covered why not don't wait call

3211
02:00:49,350 --> 02:00:47,599
today at 844-4444 liberty to get covered

3212
02:00:50,950 --> 02:00:49,360
now do you realize that your children

3213
02:00:53,669 --> 02:00:50,960
are vulnerable your parents are

3214
02:00:56,229 --> 02:00:53,679
vulnerable and yes you are vulnerable as

3215
02:00:58,629 --> 02:00:56,239
well liberty id has successfully in

3216
02:01:01,189 --> 02:00:58,639
three years restored over 60 000

3217
02:01:03,350 --> 02:01:01,199
identities restored their good name and

3218
02:01:04,550 --> 02:01:03,360
that is absolutely priceless now i know

3219
02:01:06,709 --> 02:01:04,560
there's many companies out there saying

3220
02:01:09,109 --> 02:01:06,719
they can do this but liberty id is the

3221
02:01:10,910 --> 02:01:09,119
proven leader that restores your good

3222
02:01:14,030 --> 02:01:10,920
name for you call them at

3223
02:01:16,149 --> 02:01:14,040
844-44 liberty or visit them at

3224
02:01:17,910 --> 02:01:16,159
libertyid.com and make sure you mention

3225
02:01:20,390 --> 02:01:17,920
gcn at checkout for an incredible

3226
02:01:22,390 --> 02:01:20,400
discount fully cooked ready to eat bacon

3227
02:01:25,189 --> 02:01:22,400
i'm talking thick meaty center cut

3228
02:01:27,990 --> 02:01:25,199
presidential bacon savory and delicious

3229
02:01:30,470 --> 02:01:28,000
i buy some i use some i store some

3230
02:01:33,430 --> 02:01:30,480
awesome no refrigeration needed with a

3231
02:01:36,229 --> 02:01:33,440
10 year shelf life nasa pack technology

3232
02:01:38,470 --> 02:01:36,239
bacon fully cooked fully hydrated ready

3233
02:01:41,189 --> 02:01:38,480
to eat right from the packed bacon or

3234
02:01:43,990 --> 02:01:41,199
warm and served life-saving ready-to-eat

3235
02:01:46,390 --> 02:01:44,000
bacon 10-year shelf life bacon ships

3236
02:01:50,950 --> 02:01:46,400
free at fullycookedbacon.com

3237
02:01:55,669 --> 02:01:53,189
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3238
02:01:59,189 --> 02:01:55,679
comment or question about the paracast

3239
02:02:02,470 --> 02:01:59,199
send it to news at the paracast.com

3240
02:02:04,310 --> 02:02:02,480
that's news at theparacast.com

3241
02:02:06,709 --> 02:02:04,320
and don't forget to visit our famous

3242
02:02:11,270 --> 02:02:06,719
paracast community forums at

3243
02:02:15,589 --> 02:02:13,030
so let's continue with the trivia and

3244
02:02:17,910 --> 02:02:15,599
get to listener questions here so joel

3245
02:02:20,629 --> 02:02:17,920
heineck of course if you look him up he

3246
02:02:23,030 --> 02:02:20,639
was nominated for predator he won by the

3247
02:02:26,870 --> 02:02:23,040
way for what dreams may come

3248
02:02:28,790 --> 02:02:26,880
oh okay he did zeolig he did xanadu lady

3249
02:02:31,510 --> 02:02:28,800
hawk i love that movie he was the

3250
02:02:33,350 --> 02:02:31,520
optical photography supervisor he did

3251
02:02:35,350 --> 02:02:33,360
weird science

3252
02:02:38,390 --> 02:02:35,360
he did predator 2.

3253
02:02:40,310 --> 02:02:38,400
he did judge dredd about

3254
02:02:42,070 --> 02:02:40,320
the less said the better he did die hard

3255
02:02:47,910 --> 02:02:42,080
with a vengeance

3256
02:02:51,350 --> 02:02:49,189
okay

3257
02:02:53,189 --> 02:02:51,360
all right that's quite a career he's got

3258
02:02:54,950 --> 02:02:53,199
quiet curry still doing he's doing a tv

3259
02:02:56,950 --> 02:02:54,960
show called the originals

3260
02:02:58,390 --> 02:02:56,960
he's doing a movie called exile to

3261
02:03:00,870 --> 02:02:58,400
babylon

3262
02:03:02,550 --> 02:03:00,880
so he's working between tv

3263
02:03:03,750 --> 02:03:02,560
and the movies

3264
02:03:05,109 --> 02:03:03,760
so

3265
02:03:06,550 --> 02:03:05,119
guy has quite a career and you look at

3266
02:03:08,310 --> 02:03:06,560
his face

3267
02:03:10,470 --> 02:03:08,320
he kind of looks like

3268
02:03:12,229 --> 02:03:10,480
dr heineck with the beard but kind of a

3269
02:03:14,629 --> 02:03:12,239
wider face

3270
02:03:16,550 --> 02:03:14,639
if that means anything i've never seen

3271
02:03:18,629 --> 02:03:16,560
his picture but i'll take your word for

3272
02:03:20,310 --> 02:03:18,639
it i'm just looking online about that we

3273
02:03:22,550 --> 02:03:20,320
have some questions from listeners we

3274
02:03:24,470 --> 02:03:22,560
didn't have a lot of time to put up the

3275
02:03:25,750 --> 02:03:24,480
information but we have a few questions

3276
02:03:27,669 --> 02:03:25,760
from our listeners

3277
02:03:30,070 --> 02:03:27,679
of mark o'connell

3278
02:03:32,390 --> 02:03:30,080
kurt would you look them up please

3279
02:03:34,229 --> 02:03:32,400
sure we've got one from william

3280
02:03:37,109 --> 02:03:34,239
strathman and this goes back to what we

3281
02:03:39,589 --> 02:03:37,119
were talking about briefly about um

3282
02:03:41,430 --> 02:03:39,599
heinek's evolving beliefs and he says

3283
02:03:43,510 --> 02:03:41,440
now first of all we have to

3284
02:03:45,830 --> 02:03:43,520
check fact check him on this opening

3285
02:03:48,550 --> 02:03:45,840
premise heineken said on a live radio

3286
02:03:51,669 --> 02:03:48,560
broadcast that he thought ufos came from

3287
02:03:54,390 --> 02:03:51,679
a realm akin to that of gods and angels

3288
02:03:55,270 --> 02:03:54,400
well first of all is that true

3289
02:04:18,070 --> 02:03:55,280
i

3290
02:04:20,790 --> 02:04:18,080
from a realm of nature that we do not

3291
02:04:22,870 --> 02:04:20,800
understand yet so i guess in a way you

3292
02:04:24,870 --> 02:04:22,880
could interpret that as as god and

3293
02:04:27,750 --> 02:04:24,880
angels you know if that was your if that

3294
02:04:29,910 --> 02:04:27,760
was your predilection so i'd say i'd say

3295
02:04:31,109 --> 02:04:29,920
yeah i i i believe

3296
02:04:33,589 --> 02:04:31,119
i believe heineken would have said

3297
02:04:34,950 --> 02:04:33,599
something along those lines i'm just not

3298
02:04:36,629 --> 02:04:34,960
sure if he would have used the gods in

3299
02:04:37,990 --> 02:04:36,639
angel imagery

3300
02:04:40,709 --> 02:04:38,000
we'll have to see if we can find that

3301
02:04:42,950 --> 02:04:40,719
exact quote but on honor the question

3302
02:04:45,510 --> 02:04:42,960
he's he wants to know did heinek ever

3303
02:04:47,669 --> 02:04:45,520
think that some ufos were e.t visitors

3304
02:04:49,350 --> 02:04:47,679
traveling in metal craft in other words

3305
02:04:50,470 --> 02:04:49,360
the nuts and bolts

3306
02:04:53,189 --> 02:04:50,480
version

3307
02:04:56,550 --> 02:04:53,199
well did he believe that well

3308
02:04:59,109 --> 02:04:56,560
heinek was very reluctant to commit to

3309
02:05:00,390 --> 02:04:59,119
that sort of explanation for the

3310
02:05:02,550 --> 02:05:00,400
phenomenon

3311
02:05:04,310 --> 02:05:02,560
so it's not that he didn't believe it

3312
02:05:05,350 --> 02:05:04,320
it's that he felt that until there was

3313
02:05:07,830 --> 02:05:05,360
proof

3314
02:05:09,910 --> 02:05:07,840
he couldn't get behind the theory i mean

3315
02:05:11,669 --> 02:05:09,920
he actually said in a news special once

3316
02:05:13,350 --> 02:05:11,679
he said anybody's free to say that

3317
02:05:15,189 --> 02:05:13,360
they're extraterrestrial beings flying

3318
02:05:17,030 --> 02:05:15,199
here in spaceships but the burden of

3319
02:05:18,470 --> 02:05:17,040
proof is on them and that's how he

3320
02:05:21,430 --> 02:05:18,480
basically approached the entire

3321
02:05:22,629 --> 02:05:21,440
phenomenon he was willing to

3322
02:05:24,149 --> 02:05:22,639
entertain

3323
02:05:26,310 --> 02:05:24,159
different explanations for the

3324
02:05:29,189 --> 02:05:26,320
phenomenon but he was never willing to

3325
02:05:30,709 --> 02:05:29,199
commit to any one of those explanations

3326
02:05:32,629 --> 02:05:30,719
the end result of that was that it drove

3327
02:05:35,189 --> 02:05:32,639
a lot of people absolutely nuts it made

3328
02:05:37,510 --> 02:05:35,199
a lot of people very impatient and upset

3329
02:05:40,149 --> 02:05:37,520
with him because of course he's the

3330
02:05:42,390 --> 02:05:40,159
number one ufo expert

3331
02:05:44,070 --> 02:05:42,400
why won't he commit to an explanation

3332
02:05:45,669 --> 02:05:44,080
that's what we all want him to do and

3333
02:05:47,350 --> 02:05:45,679
yet he would never do it so he

3334
02:05:49,510 --> 02:05:47,360
frustrated a lot of people with that

3335
02:05:50,870 --> 02:05:49,520
attitude that brings us to our next

3336
02:05:53,350 --> 02:05:50,880
question because

3337
02:05:56,070 --> 02:05:53,360
donald kehoe was very specific about

3338
02:05:57,510 --> 02:05:56,080
saying exactly what flying saucers were

3339
02:06:00,070 --> 02:05:57,520
that they were extraterrestrial

3340
02:06:02,790 --> 02:06:00,080
spacecraft and williams other question

3341
02:06:04,950 --> 02:06:02,800
is after heineken changed his view from

3342
02:06:07,270 --> 02:06:04,960
debunker to that of accepting your

3343
02:06:10,070 --> 02:06:07,280
reality did he ever correspond with

3344
02:06:11,830 --> 02:06:10,080
donald kehoe or james mcdonald no those

3345
02:06:14,310 --> 02:06:11,840
are two different very different people

3346
02:06:16,149 --> 02:06:14,320
but i'm even interested in the earlier

3347
02:06:17,669 --> 02:06:16,159
relationship with donald kehoe if you're

3348
02:06:19,990 --> 02:06:17,679
aware of that both of those

3349
02:06:20,790 --> 02:06:20,000
relationships actually uh come up in the

3350
02:06:22,310 --> 02:06:20,800
book

3351
02:06:23,830 --> 02:06:22,320
there's more to the kehoe story than i

3352
02:06:26,629 --> 02:06:23,840
was able to cover in the book but yeah

3353
02:06:28,550 --> 02:06:26,639
he was definitely an important figure

3354
02:06:30,390 --> 02:06:28,560
kehoe was one of the earliest proponents

3355
02:06:33,350 --> 02:06:30,400
of the idea that the government knew

3356
02:06:34,229 --> 02:06:33,360
about ufos and was refusing to tell us

3357
02:06:35,830 --> 02:06:34,239
okay

3358
02:06:38,310 --> 02:06:35,840
so that sort of kicks off the whole

3359
02:06:40,629 --> 02:06:38,320
government cover-up conspiracy

3360
02:06:43,189 --> 02:06:40,639
narrative that has you know stayed alive

3361
02:06:45,510 --> 02:06:43,199
for so many years so kehoe really kind

3362
02:06:47,350 --> 02:06:45,520
of started that whole thing

3363
02:06:50,069 --> 02:06:47,360
and there is an interesting moment and i

3364
02:06:51,990 --> 02:06:50,079
quote this in the book when heineken was

3365
02:06:53,510 --> 02:06:52,000
getting frustrated with

3366
02:06:55,430 --> 02:06:53,520
his current blue book chief i can't

3367
02:06:58,229 --> 02:06:55,440
remember who it was at the time but he

3368
02:06:59,910 --> 02:06:58,239
was he felt he he was being held back

3369
02:07:02,229 --> 02:06:59,920
from being able to

3370
02:07:03,990 --> 02:07:02,239
fully investigate ufo cases and he

3371
02:07:05,830 --> 02:07:04,000
actually sent a long letter to his boss

3372
02:07:09,350 --> 02:07:05,840
in which he said

3373
02:07:11,189 --> 02:07:09,360
donald kehoe is eating our lunch because

3374
02:07:13,910 --> 02:07:11,199
he is doing a better job of

3375
02:07:15,990 --> 02:07:13,920
investigating these cases than we are if

3376
02:07:18,550 --> 02:07:16,000
we're not careful that's going to blow

3377
02:07:21,270 --> 02:07:18,560
up in our faces well heinek's warning

3378
02:07:23,270 --> 02:07:21,280
was never really heated by his bosses

3379
02:07:25,270 --> 02:07:23,280
and donald kehoe kept sort of nipping at

3380
02:07:27,430 --> 02:07:25,280
the heels of the air force and he

3381
02:07:28,470 --> 02:07:27,440
absolutely was a major major annoyance

3382
02:07:30,790 --> 02:07:28,480
to them

3383
02:07:33,430 --> 02:07:30,800
um who was the other one you mentioned

3384
02:07:35,430 --> 02:07:33,440
dr james mcdonald oh yeah dr mcdonald

3385
02:07:37,189 --> 02:07:35,440
that's a great story mcdonald is such a

3386
02:07:39,189 --> 02:07:37,199
fascinating character

3387
02:07:42,069 --> 02:07:39,199
so he's a professor from the university

3388
02:07:43,750 --> 02:07:42,079
of arizona he had seen a ufo but he was

3389
02:07:45,990 --> 02:07:43,760
very disappointed with the way blue book

3390
02:07:47,830 --> 02:07:46,000
handled the ufo investigation

3391
02:07:50,390 --> 02:07:47,840
he felt that the amateur groups like

3392
02:07:53,270 --> 02:07:50,400
nycap and apro just simply weren't

3393
02:07:55,750 --> 02:07:53,280
capable of investigating his sighting

3394
02:07:57,030 --> 02:07:55,760
so he you he pulled some strings he had

3395
02:07:59,350 --> 02:07:57,040
some government connections and he

3396
02:08:02,790 --> 02:07:59,360
visited wright-patterson air force base

3397
02:08:05,030 --> 02:08:02,800
and he actually read all the reports all

3398
02:08:06,950 --> 02:08:05,040
the confidential reports in the blue

3399
02:08:08,870 --> 02:08:06,960
book files in which basically the air

3400
02:08:11,589 --> 02:08:08,880
force was saying the whole point of

3401
02:08:14,229 --> 02:08:11,599
project blue book is to make people

3402
02:08:16,310 --> 02:08:14,239
forget about ufos is to make people not

3403
02:08:18,709 --> 02:08:16,320
believe in ufos

3404
02:08:21,669 --> 02:08:18,719
so he reads these papers and then he

3405
02:08:23,589 --> 02:08:21,679
goes to chicago to visit with heinek and

3406
02:08:25,430 --> 02:08:23,599
he slams his fist on heinek's table and

3407
02:08:27,030 --> 02:08:25,440
he's like damn it alan

3408
02:08:29,109 --> 02:08:27,040
why have you been sitting there in

3409
02:08:31,669 --> 02:08:29,119
silence for 18 years on project blue

3410
02:08:33,990 --> 02:08:31,679
book when you've had all these fantastic

3411
02:08:35,990 --> 02:08:34,000
case reports coming your way

3412
02:08:37,510 --> 02:08:36,000
and heinek was just stunned he felt like

3413
02:08:39,270 --> 02:08:37,520
wait a minute you don't understand the

3414
02:08:41,750 --> 02:08:39,280
position i was in

3415
02:08:44,629 --> 02:08:41,760
it wasn't that easy so on the one hand

3416
02:08:46,709 --> 02:08:44,639
heinek was just completely

3417
02:08:49,990 --> 02:08:46,719
aghast at the fact that mcdonald was

3418
02:08:52,310 --> 02:08:50,000
accusing him of not doing his job but at

3419
02:08:53,910 --> 02:08:52,320
the same time heineken was so thrilled

3420
02:08:56,149 --> 02:08:53,920
that here is another colleague an

3421
02:08:56,870 --> 02:08:56,159
establishment scientist who has a you

3422
02:08:59,669 --> 02:08:56,880
know

3423
02:09:01,830 --> 02:08:59,679
a leading figure in academia who shares

3424
02:09:04,149 --> 02:09:01,840
his views about ufos that they need to

3425
02:09:05,990 --> 02:09:04,159
be studied more deeply so on the one

3426
02:09:07,990 --> 02:09:06,000
hand heineken was really taken aback by

3427
02:09:09,830 --> 02:09:08,000
mcdonald's anger but at the same time he

3428
02:09:13,030 --> 02:09:09,840
was secretly thrilled that somebody

3429
02:09:16,069 --> 02:09:13,990
and

3430
02:09:18,069 --> 02:09:16,079
they uh

3431
02:09:20,870 --> 02:09:18,079
what was their working relationship i

3432
02:09:23,830 --> 02:09:20,880
recall that the uh i'm sure gene knows

3433
02:09:27,030 --> 02:09:23,840
the terminology but but after the

3434
02:09:29,109 --> 02:09:27,040
uh the swamp gas incident there was a

3435
02:09:31,750 --> 02:09:29,119
congressional inquiry of some kind and

3436
02:09:32,629 --> 02:09:31,760
and i think they worked together on that

3437
02:09:39,589 --> 02:09:32,639
i

3438
02:09:42,550 --> 02:09:39,599
came

3439
02:09:44,950 --> 02:09:42,560
the summer after the swamp gas incident

3440
02:09:47,589 --> 02:09:44,960
so it was within a matter of months and

3441
02:09:50,470 --> 02:09:47,599
the one thing that that visit did do

3442
02:09:52,950 --> 02:09:50,480
uh was it inspired heinek to write a

3443
02:09:54,550 --> 02:09:52,960
very long letter to the editors of

3444
02:09:57,189 --> 02:09:54,560
science magazine

3445
02:09:59,830 --> 02:09:57,199
basically giving them a status report on

3446
02:10:01,669 --> 02:09:59,840
the field of ufo study so that is

3447
02:10:05,430 --> 02:10:01,679
something that mcdonald's

3448
02:10:07,589 --> 02:10:05,440
absolute that is a very positive effect

3449
02:10:10,470 --> 02:10:07,599
he actually got heinek

3450
02:10:12,310 --> 02:10:10,480
brave enough to really break cover and

3451
02:10:14,629 --> 02:10:12,320
write a very long letter in a very

3452
02:10:17,270 --> 02:10:14,639
distinguished science magazine about the

3453
02:10:19,270 --> 02:10:17,280
reality of the ufo situation

3454
02:10:20,790 --> 02:10:19,280
we're continuing with the close

3455
02:10:22,709 --> 02:10:20,800
encounters man

3456
02:10:25,189 --> 02:10:22,719
dr j allen heineck

3457
02:10:30,930 --> 02:10:25,199
the book by mark o'connell with gene and

3458
02:10:30,940 --> 02:10:38,950
[Music]

3459
02:10:43,069 --> 02:10:42,149
thank you for listening to gcn

3460
02:10:47,510 --> 02:10:43,079
visit

3461
02:10:50,310 --> 02:10:48,629
are you looking to become more

3462
02:10:52,950 --> 02:10:50,320
self-sufficient then you need to have

3463
02:10:54,550 --> 02:10:52,960
your own energy source the solar emp

3464
02:10:55,990 --> 02:10:54,560
harden generator is automatic

3465
02:10:57,750 --> 02:10:56,000
maintenance free and reduces your

3466
02:11:00,350 --> 02:10:57,760
monthly electric bill you can also take

3467
02:11:02,470 --> 02:11:00,360
it off-grid when you go camping contact

3468
02:11:04,189 --> 02:11:02,480
portablesolarlc.com or call for details

3469
02:11:06,950 --> 02:11:04,199
at

3470
02:11:08,470 --> 02:11:06,960
972-575-8875 today portable solar llc

3471
02:11:10,709 --> 02:11:08,480
gives you everything you need to start

3472
02:11:12,950 --> 02:11:10,719
using solar energy in less than one hour

3473
02:11:14,709 --> 02:11:12,960
seoul arc emp hardened solar generator

3474
02:11:17,270 --> 02:11:14,719
energy insurance for your family or

3475
02:11:19,830 --> 02:11:17,280
business call portable solar llc today

3476
02:11:22,149 --> 02:11:19,840
hunters anglers campers and survivalists

3477
02:11:24,229 --> 02:11:22,159
get back to nature expand your horizons

3478
02:11:26,229 --> 02:11:24,239
with the highest quality most versatile

3479
02:11:28,950 --> 02:11:26,239
unique slingshots and sling bows on the

3480
02:11:30,870 --> 02:11:28,960
market at slingbow.com slingbow products

3481
02:11:33,350 --> 02:11:30,880
are compact and models start from just

3482
02:11:35,189 --> 02:11:33,360
17.98 they're perfect for your bug out

3483
02:11:36,870 --> 02:11:35,199
bag or storing in your vehicle give

3484
02:11:39,189 --> 02:11:36,880
yourself and your loved ones the

3485
02:11:41,510 --> 02:11:39,199
excitement and tradition of slingbow a

3486
02:11:43,589 --> 02:11:41,520
new frontier in archery and truly modern

3487
02:11:49,270 --> 02:11:43,599
twist on this primitive survival tool

3488
02:11:53,589 --> 02:11:52,229
hi peter vaccaro for paranormaldate.com

3489
02:11:55,669 --> 02:11:53,599
are you looking for love in all the

3490
02:11:58,589 --> 02:11:55,679
wrong places now you have a chance to

3491
02:12:00,870 --> 02:11:58,599
change that by signing it for free at

3492
02:12:02,790 --> 02:12:00,880
paranormaldate.com this incredible

3493
02:12:04,709 --> 02:12:02,800
dating site puts people of like minds

3494
02:12:07,109 --> 02:12:04,719
together people are interested in the

3495
02:12:10,510 --> 02:12:07,119
strange the unusual mysteries ghosts

3496
02:12:12,790 --> 02:12:10,520
ufos and the afterlife and so much more

3497
02:12:15,030 --> 02:12:12,800
paranormaldate.com was developed for you

3498
02:12:17,510 --> 02:12:15,040
people seeking a viable alternative to

3499
02:12:20,229 --> 02:12:17,520
the other dating services you can join

3500
02:12:21,990 --> 02:12:20,239
for free by going to paranormaldate.com

3501
02:12:24,229 --> 02:12:22,000
and if you decide you like it and want

3502
02:12:27,109 --> 02:12:24,239
to connect with people use the code

3503
02:12:29,270 --> 02:12:27,119
george for a substantial discount mark

3504
02:12:30,709 --> 02:12:29,280
rawlings president of paranormaldate.com

3505
02:12:33,030 --> 02:12:30,719
says so many people hunger to share

3506
02:12:35,270 --> 02:12:33,040
their experiences about the paranormal

3507
02:12:37,669 --> 02:12:35,280
the unexplainable or the afterlife and

3508
02:12:39,350 --> 02:12:37,679
so much more and this is the source for

3509
02:12:40,950 --> 02:12:39,360
them to meet and share that common

3510
02:12:43,229 --> 02:12:40,960
interest so sign up for free at

3511
02:12:47,669 --> 02:12:43,239
paranormaldate.com

3512
02:12:49,030 --> 02:12:47,679
george if you decide to connect with

3513
02:12:51,430 --> 02:12:49,040
someone you like

3514
02:12:53,270 --> 02:12:51,440
heart disease is on the rise clogged

3515
02:12:55,189 --> 02:12:53,280
arteries high blood pressure and high

3516
02:12:57,430 --> 02:12:55,199
cholesterol levels may not be fully

3517
02:12:59,910 --> 02:12:57,440
detected by you but the symptoms are

3518
02:13:02,310 --> 02:12:59,920
there loss of energy blood sugar spikes

3519
02:13:04,149 --> 02:13:02,320
and drops poor circulation and irregular

3520
02:13:06,229 --> 02:13:04,159
heartbeat are just a few of these that

3521
02:13:08,390 --> 02:13:06,239
can alert you that something is wrong

3522
02:13:10,229 --> 02:13:08,400
hear how heart and body extract is

3523
02:13:12,709 --> 02:13:10,239
making a difference in thousands of

3524
02:13:15,109 --> 02:13:12,719
people's lives across america my blood

3525
02:13:16,950 --> 02:13:15,119
pressure has normalized my diabetes has

3526
02:13:18,790 --> 02:13:16,960
totally improved everyone is telling me

3527
02:13:20,550 --> 02:13:18,800
now how much healthier i look and i'm

3528
02:13:22,229 --> 02:13:20,560
telling everyone how much healthy i feel

3529
02:13:24,470 --> 02:13:22,239
i recommend heart and body extract to

3530
02:13:26,950 --> 02:13:24,480
everyone anybody over 40 in the north

3531
02:13:28,950 --> 02:13:26,960
american continent should be using this

3532
02:13:31,189 --> 02:13:28,960
product as a preventative to keep their

3533
02:13:34,669 --> 02:13:31,199
cardiovascular system healthy order your

3534
02:13:37,550 --> 02:13:34,679
two-month supply today by calling

3535
02:13:40,510 --> 02:13:37,560
866-295-5305 that's

3536
02:13:43,189 --> 02:13:40,520
866-295-5305 or order online

3537
02:13:45,109 --> 02:13:43,199
hbxtract.com heart and body extract

3538
02:13:48,149 --> 02:13:45,119
eight six six two nine five five three

3539
02:13:49,830 --> 02:13:48,159
zero five or hb extract dot com

3540
02:13:51,589 --> 02:13:49,840
are you happy washing your hands with

3541
02:13:53,589 --> 02:13:51,599
harsh chemicals are you happy doing

3542
02:13:55,830 --> 02:13:53,599
laundry with detergents are you happy

3543
02:13:58,069 --> 02:13:55,840
paying high prices find your happiness

3544
02:14:00,229 --> 02:13:58,079
with pure soap these all natural

3545
02:14:03,030 --> 02:14:00,239
earth-friendly pure soaps are the very

3546
02:14:06,310 --> 02:14:03,040
best you've ever used buy in bulk get a

3547
02:14:08,550 --> 02:14:06,320
12 36 or 48 months supply or get items

3548
02:14:10,390 --> 02:14:08,560
individually and still save big you're

3549
02:14:12,790 --> 02:14:10,400
getting soap products twice as good as

3550
02:14:15,109 --> 02:14:12,800
what you're using now earth friendly and

3551
02:14:18,310 --> 02:14:15,119
natural soaps your family deserves the

3552
02:14:20,229 --> 02:14:18,320
best happiness is five star soap dot com

3553
02:14:22,790 --> 02:14:20,239
why not put your money up the drain for

3554
02:14:26,470 --> 02:14:22,800
a change see them at five star soap dot

3555
02:14:28,790 --> 02:14:26,480
com or call 1-800-34070

3556
02:14:30,790 --> 02:14:28,800
for a catalog cal ben soap company can

3557
02:14:33,030 --> 02:14:30,800
save you thousands of dollars and give

3558
02:14:35,430 --> 02:14:33,040
you good old-fashioned real soaps that

3559
02:14:37,589 --> 02:14:35,440
are triple concentrated soaps made from

3560
02:14:39,550 --> 02:14:37,599
vegetable and coconut oils see their

3561
02:14:43,430 --> 02:14:39,560
full selection of soaps at

3562
02:14:45,470 --> 02:14:43,440
fivestarsoap.com that's fivestarsoap.com

3563
02:14:50,760 --> 02:14:45,480
or call

3564
02:14:50,770 --> 02:14:54,069
[Music]

3565
02:14:59,189 --> 02:14:55,990
this is nuclear physicist lecturer

3566
02:15:02,709 --> 02:14:59,199
stanton friedman you are listening to

3567
02:15:04,600 --> 02:15:02,719
the parrot cast the gold standard of

3568
02:15:10,069 --> 02:15:04,610
paranormal radio

3569
02:15:13,669 --> 02:15:11,910
quickly we're going to have some

3570
02:15:15,030 --> 02:15:13,679
fascinating episodes coming up after the

3571
02:15:17,030 --> 02:15:15,040
power cast

3572
02:15:18,709 --> 02:15:17,040
we have one upcoming with paul kimball

3573
02:15:21,189 --> 02:15:18,719
and lots more

3574
02:15:22,790 --> 02:15:21,199
if you want to hear that show or even

3575
02:15:25,830 --> 02:15:22,800
hear the commercial free version of this

3576
02:15:27,350 --> 02:15:25,840
one you have to join the powercast plus

3577
02:15:32,950 --> 02:15:27,360
for more information check out

3578
02:15:36,950 --> 02:15:34,629
it's really really

3579
02:15:38,870 --> 02:15:36,960
worth it we have kurt collins is our

3580
02:15:40,149 --> 02:15:38,880
guest co-host with mark o'connell

3581
02:15:43,270 --> 02:15:40,159
pursuing

3582
02:15:46,069 --> 02:15:43,280
stories about dr j allen heineck

3583
02:15:46,950 --> 02:15:46,079
and how dr mcdonald kind of

3584
02:15:48,629 --> 02:15:46,960
egged

3585
02:15:50,550 --> 02:15:48,639
dr heineck along there to be more

3586
02:15:53,189 --> 02:15:50,560
assertive that's that's a fair

3587
02:15:56,149 --> 02:15:53,199
description he definitely inspired dr

3588
02:15:58,709 --> 02:15:56,159
heineck to to actually stick his neck

3589
02:16:01,430 --> 02:15:58,719
out a little and make a public statement

3590
02:16:03,990 --> 02:16:01,440
um to the scientific community about the

3591
02:16:06,069 --> 02:16:04,000
ufo phenomenon we had another listener

3592
02:16:08,470 --> 02:16:06,079
question and this was uh this was

3593
02:16:11,510 --> 02:16:08,480
actually about your opinion but if you

3594
02:16:14,149 --> 02:16:11,520
wanted to to try to channel dr heineck

3595
02:16:16,310 --> 02:16:14,159
for this too blowfish asks what does

3596
02:16:18,709 --> 02:16:16,320
mark think about this article greetings

3597
02:16:20,470 --> 02:16:18,719
et please don't murder us and i haven't

3598
02:16:21,990 --> 02:16:20,480
read that i don't know if you have but

3599
02:16:24,790 --> 02:16:22,000
i'm assuming this has to do with the

3600
02:16:27,189 --> 02:16:24,800
stephen hawking suggestion that if e.t

3601
02:16:29,350 --> 02:16:27,199
comes we're going to come out in bad

3602
02:16:32,629 --> 02:16:29,360
shape because every time a superior

3603
02:16:34,950 --> 02:16:32,639
technology comes to a primitive people

3604
02:16:37,349 --> 02:16:34,960
which we would be in comparison the

3605
02:16:40,070 --> 02:16:37,359
primitives lose out so what's your

3606
02:16:42,230 --> 02:16:40,080
what's your take on that theory well i

3607
02:16:44,870 --> 02:16:42,240
just read that article this morning and

3608
02:16:47,190 --> 02:16:44,880
it is an amazing story anybody who has a

3609
02:16:49,669 --> 02:16:47,200
chance read that story it's so well

3610
02:16:53,030 --> 02:16:49,679
researched and so well written it really

3611
02:16:56,150 --> 02:16:53,040
covers all the nuances of the positives

3612
02:16:58,950 --> 02:16:56,160
and the negatives of us trying to make

3613
02:17:01,270 --> 02:16:58,960
contact with with other intelligences in

3614
02:17:03,589 --> 02:17:01,280
the universe it gives you a whole lot to

3615
02:17:05,589 --> 02:17:03,599
think about and it parallels in some

3616
02:17:06,549 --> 02:17:05,599
ways some of the material in my book

3617
02:17:08,070 --> 02:17:06,559
because

3618
02:17:10,870 --> 02:17:08,080
one of the leading figures in the search

3619
02:17:13,669 --> 02:17:10,880
for extraterrestrial intelligence was dr

3620
02:17:15,190 --> 02:17:13,679
carl sagan well sagan and hynek had a

3621
02:17:17,110 --> 02:17:15,200
very long

3622
02:17:20,150 --> 02:17:17,120
professional relationship and personal

3623
02:17:22,790 --> 02:17:20,160
relationship which they often uh did

3624
02:17:25,030 --> 02:17:22,800
battle sometimes in public over the ufo

3625
02:17:27,110 --> 02:17:25,040
phenomenon sagan was a huge skeptic and

3626
02:17:29,830 --> 02:17:27,120
in fact he made fun of anybody who

3627
02:17:31,830 --> 02:17:29,840
talked about ufos including dr hanik so

3628
02:17:34,469 --> 02:17:31,840
sagan is a part of this article that the

3629
02:17:36,709 --> 02:17:34,479
questioner uh mentioned because he he

3630
02:17:38,309 --> 02:17:36,719
was one of the founders of the institute

3631
02:17:39,669 --> 02:17:38,319
for the search for extraterrestrial

3632
02:17:42,870 --> 02:17:39,679
intelligence

3633
02:17:45,750 --> 02:17:42,880
now seti what said he does with very few

3634
02:17:48,309 --> 02:17:45,760
exceptions seti simply points an antenna

3635
02:17:51,589 --> 02:17:48,319
into space and listens for signals

3636
02:17:53,750 --> 02:17:51,599
the article was all about this new group

3637
02:17:55,750 --> 02:17:53,760
called medi which was messaging

3638
02:17:57,190 --> 02:17:55,760
extraterrestrial intelligence they're

3639
02:18:00,230 --> 02:17:57,200
going to take the opposite approach they

3640
02:18:01,830 --> 02:18:00,240
are going to actively broadcast signals

3641
02:18:03,190 --> 02:18:01,840
out into space

3642
02:18:06,150 --> 02:18:03,200
in the hopes that some alien

3643
02:18:08,230 --> 02:18:06,160
civilization will receive those signals

3644
02:18:11,669 --> 02:18:08,240
so the question is

3645
02:18:12,790 --> 02:18:11,679
is this smart is it smart for us

3646
02:18:14,389 --> 02:18:12,800
to

3647
02:18:18,070 --> 02:18:14,399
let other

3648
02:18:21,030 --> 02:18:18,080
intelligent life forms know where we are

3649
02:18:23,589 --> 02:18:21,040
even if it is okay is it fair that that

3650
02:18:25,030 --> 02:18:23,599
decision is being made by a handful of

3651
02:18:27,509 --> 02:18:25,040
scientists

3652
02:18:30,230 --> 02:18:27,519
and all the rest of us people on earth

3653
02:18:31,669 --> 02:18:30,240
who could be affected by this decision

3654
02:18:33,110 --> 02:18:31,679
we never get a say in this kind of

3655
02:18:35,589 --> 02:18:33,120
decision so those were kind of the two

3656
02:18:36,950 --> 02:18:35,599
main themes of the article as i read it

3657
02:18:38,389 --> 02:18:36,960
and i thought it was really fascinating

3658
02:18:40,870 --> 02:18:38,399
and i think the author made some

3659
02:18:43,190 --> 02:18:40,880
incredibly good points i think we really

3660
02:18:45,030 --> 02:18:43,200
should think about

3661
02:18:46,230 --> 02:18:45,040
what could happen if we made our

3662
02:18:47,669 --> 02:18:46,240
presence known

3663
02:18:49,910 --> 02:18:47,679
and there are good arguments on both

3664
02:18:51,830 --> 02:18:49,920
sides i i have to say i'm not choosing

3665
02:18:53,589 --> 02:18:51,840
the side yet because there are very

3666
02:18:55,110 --> 02:18:53,599
convincing and very fascinating

3667
02:18:57,349 --> 02:18:55,120
thought-provoking arguments on both

3668
02:18:58,549 --> 02:18:57,359
sides but it's definitely anyone who's

3669
02:18:59,830 --> 02:18:58,559
interested in this topic should read

3670
02:19:01,270 --> 02:18:59,840
this article

3671
02:19:02,790 --> 02:19:01,280
there was there was one more question

3672
02:19:04,469 --> 02:19:02,800
this was from techno mage and i think

3673
02:19:07,190 --> 02:19:04,479
we've kind of covered this already but

3674
02:19:08,790 --> 02:19:07,200
maybe we can spin off from this he says

3675
02:19:10,549 --> 02:19:08,800
what was there a particularly strong

3676
02:19:12,549 --> 02:19:10,559
case that convinced heineck that there

3677
02:19:15,030 --> 02:19:12,559
was more to ufos that could be

3678
02:19:17,509 --> 02:19:15,040
conventionally explained and

3679
02:19:19,030 --> 02:19:17,519
if there wasn't a case in particular

3680
02:19:20,629 --> 02:19:19,040
did you think

3681
02:19:23,750 --> 02:19:20,639
there was something that

3682
02:19:26,309 --> 02:19:23,760
gave him an idea that supported his uh

3683
02:19:28,790 --> 02:19:26,319
psychic notions that there might be that

3684
02:19:30,629 --> 02:19:28,800
kind of explanation

3685
02:19:32,230 --> 02:19:30,639
well i mentioned before that heineken

3686
02:19:34,309 --> 02:19:32,240
was never always very comfortable with

3687
02:19:36,469 --> 02:19:34,319
occupant cases close encounters of the

3688
02:19:38,709 --> 02:19:36,479
third kind cases

3689
02:19:39,750 --> 02:19:38,719
but those were the cases that

3690
02:19:42,870 --> 02:19:39,760
that very

3691
02:19:45,030 --> 02:19:42,880
often really caused him to

3692
02:19:47,270 --> 02:19:45,040
question his own beliefs question his

3693
02:19:49,030 --> 02:19:47,280
own biases and there was there were a

3694
02:19:51,270 --> 02:19:49,040
string of them that sort of came into

3695
02:19:54,309 --> 02:19:51,280
his field of consciousness in the early

3696
02:19:56,630 --> 02:19:54,319
70s he met with father gill the anglican

3697
02:19:58,630 --> 02:19:56,640
uh minister from boyani new guinea who

3698
02:20:00,389 --> 02:19:58,640
had seen the waving ufo occupants in

3699
02:20:02,150 --> 02:20:00,399
1959

3700
02:20:04,790 --> 02:20:02,160
no sooner had he gotten back from that

3701
02:20:06,950 --> 02:20:04,800
trip meeting with dr gill then the

3702
02:20:09,750 --> 02:20:06,960
pascagoula mississippi abduction took

3703
02:20:11,270 --> 02:20:09,760
place and this is in 1973 now

3704
02:20:14,469 --> 02:20:11,280
so all of a sudden heineken was

3705
02:20:16,870 --> 02:20:14,479
confronted with some very high profile

3706
02:20:19,510 --> 02:20:16,880
close encounters of the third kind and

3707
02:20:21,750 --> 02:20:19,520
he really had to confront his own biases

3708
02:20:23,510 --> 02:20:21,760
and i thought those cases made some very

3709
02:20:25,590 --> 02:20:23,520
interesting transition points for him

3710
02:20:27,510 --> 02:20:25,600
because he went from

3711
02:20:31,110 --> 02:20:27,520
just loathing close encounter of the

3712
02:20:33,990 --> 02:20:31,120
third kind cases to thinking wow these

3713
02:20:35,429 --> 02:20:34,000
kinds of stories

3714
02:20:37,190 --> 02:20:35,439
have really started to open up his

3715
02:20:39,750 --> 02:20:37,200
thinking to alternative views of the

3716
02:20:41,750 --> 02:20:39,760
phenomenon because he absolutely did not

3717
02:20:43,510 --> 02:20:41,760
doubt these witnesses he was so

3718
02:20:45,429 --> 02:20:43,520
convinced by the witnesses that they had

3719
02:20:46,550 --> 02:20:45,439
actually had experiences with ufo

3720
02:20:48,070 --> 02:20:46,560
occupants

3721
02:20:49,750 --> 02:20:48,080
that he he was forced to take it

3722
02:20:50,950 --> 02:20:49,760
seriously and it really made a big

3723
02:20:51,670 --> 02:20:50,960
difference in his thinking towards the

3724
02:20:54,070 --> 02:20:51,680
end

3725
02:20:56,469 --> 02:20:54,080
help me out with the timeline here so

3726
02:20:58,950 --> 02:20:56,479
harnick was he was friends with dr

3727
02:21:00,150 --> 02:20:58,960
jacques villa they they co wrote a book

3728
02:21:02,870 --> 02:21:00,160
at some point

3729
02:21:05,510 --> 02:21:02,880
and project blue book was closed when

3730
02:21:07,110 --> 02:21:05,520
did the center get for ufo studies would

3731
02:21:09,349 --> 02:21:07,120
get established

3732
02:21:11,429 --> 02:21:09,359
that happened in 1973 it was shortly

3733
02:21:13,429 --> 02:21:11,439
after the pascagoula

3734
02:21:15,910 --> 02:21:13,439
abduction case

3735
02:21:18,389 --> 02:21:15,920
only one week later there was another

3736
02:21:21,030 --> 02:21:18,399
very famous case in ohio that involved a

3737
02:21:23,750 --> 02:21:21,040
army helicopter crew that almost went

3738
02:21:25,349 --> 02:21:23,760
into a crash dive to avoid a ufo and

3739
02:21:27,349 --> 02:21:25,359
then the ufo

3740
02:21:30,070 --> 02:21:27,359
grabbed the helicopter in some sort of

3741
02:21:31,590 --> 02:21:30,080
tractor beam and pulled it up to safety

3742
02:21:33,750 --> 02:21:31,600
so you had these two absolutely

3743
02:21:36,230 --> 02:21:33,760
spectacular high-profile cases taking

3744
02:21:37,990 --> 02:21:36,240
place within a week of each other well

3745
02:21:39,750 --> 02:21:38,000
within a couple weeks of that all of

3746
02:21:42,070 --> 02:21:39,760
these people are invited to be guests on

3747
02:21:44,309 --> 02:21:42,080
a tv talk show the dick cavett show

3748
02:21:46,950 --> 02:21:44,319
so heinek is there charles hickson from

3749
02:21:48,870 --> 02:21:46,960
the pascagoula abduction is there

3750
02:21:51,110 --> 02:21:48,880
lawrence coyne the captain of the

3751
02:21:53,590 --> 02:21:51,120
helicopter crew is there all to talk

3752
02:21:55,190 --> 02:21:53,600
about these experiences but also on the

3753
02:21:58,230 --> 02:21:55,200
panel that night on the talk show was

3754
02:21:59,910 --> 02:21:58,240
carl sagan and carl sagan just ridiculed

3755
02:22:03,030 --> 02:21:59,920
everyone else on the show

3756
02:22:04,469 --> 02:22:03,040
but heinek basically waited until things

3757
02:22:05,270 --> 02:22:04,479
had quieted down towards the end of the

3758
02:22:07,910 --> 02:22:05,280
show

3759
02:22:09,270 --> 02:22:07,920
and used that moment to announce that he

3760
02:22:12,230 --> 02:22:09,280
was forming

3761
02:22:13,750 --> 02:22:12,240
the center for ufo studies and it might

3762
02:22:15,510 --> 02:22:13,760
not have meant a whole lot to the people

3763
02:22:17,349 --> 02:22:15,520
watching the show but it certainly meant

3764
02:22:18,790 --> 02:22:17,359
a lot to carl sagan because it signaled

3765
02:22:19,830 --> 02:22:18,800
that number one

3766
02:22:21,990 --> 02:22:19,840
um

3767
02:22:23,830 --> 02:22:22,000
hynek was seriously going to start a

3768
02:22:25,910 --> 02:22:23,840
scientific study of the phenomenon and

3769
02:22:27,910 --> 02:22:25,920
it signaled number two that he had

3770
02:22:30,870 --> 02:22:27,920
support from other scientists and that

3771
02:22:35,830 --> 02:22:30,880
was a bombshell bit of information so

3772
02:22:38,230 --> 02:22:35,840
that's when kufos was announced in late

3773
02:22:40,070 --> 02:22:38,240
and then it really was sort of took form

3774
02:22:42,309 --> 02:22:40,080
in 1970

3775
02:22:43,349 --> 02:22:42,319
at what point this gets to be a sad part

3776
02:22:45,349 --> 02:22:43,359
of it

3777
02:22:48,830 --> 02:22:45,359
at what point did dr heineck realize

3778
02:22:52,630 --> 02:22:48,840
that his time here was rather

3779
02:22:55,510 --> 02:22:52,640
short this this was in the mid 80s he

3780
02:22:57,270 --> 02:22:55,520
and his wife had moved to um scottsdale

3781
02:22:58,070 --> 02:22:57,280
arizona which i believe you're familiar

3782
02:22:59,910 --> 02:22:58,080
with

3783
02:23:03,270 --> 02:22:59,920
yeah i lived there

3784
02:23:04,950 --> 02:23:03,280
for a number of years starting in 1993.

3785
02:23:06,710 --> 02:23:04,960
okay well

3786
02:23:10,070 --> 02:23:06,720
heinek was very glad to get away from

3787
02:23:12,870 --> 02:23:10,080
the chicago winters i can tell you that

3788
02:23:15,030 --> 02:23:12,880
so they moved to scottsdale and the the

3789
02:23:16,309 --> 02:23:15,040
initial plans were and i spent a lot of

3790
02:23:18,790 --> 02:23:16,319
time in this on the book there's a whole

3791
02:23:21,590 --> 02:23:18,800
chapter devoted to this heinek had been

3792
02:23:25,190 --> 02:23:21,600
tempted by promises of funding from a

3793
02:23:27,349 --> 02:23:25,200
multi-millionaire to fund a brand new

3794
02:23:29,190 --> 02:23:27,359
ufo research center in scottsdale

3795
02:23:31,270 --> 02:23:29,200
arizona so that was the big reason that

3796
02:23:32,950 --> 02:23:31,280
he and his wife moved down there

3797
02:23:35,030 --> 02:23:32,960
well once they moved there they found

3798
02:23:36,870 --> 02:23:35,040
out that the the promise of all this

3799
02:23:38,790 --> 02:23:36,880
funding was really just smoke and

3800
02:23:40,870 --> 02:23:38,800
mirrors the the

3801
02:23:42,630 --> 02:23:40,880
the the financing never

3802
02:23:45,270 --> 02:23:42,640
actually gelled it never actually

3803
02:23:47,590 --> 02:23:45,280
appeared so the the grandiose plans for

3804
02:23:49,750 --> 02:23:47,600
ufo research center just kind of you

3805
02:23:51,830 --> 02:23:49,760
know fell apart and it was it was a

3806
02:23:53,429 --> 02:23:51,840
disappointing moment in heinek's career

3807
02:23:55,190 --> 02:23:53,439
because he really thought that he was

3808
02:23:57,030 --> 02:23:55,200
about to reach a whole new level with

3809
02:23:59,349 --> 02:23:57,040
his ability to study the phenomenon and

3810
02:24:00,950 --> 02:23:59,359
it all came crashing down around him

3811
02:24:03,990 --> 02:24:00,960
right around that time

3812
02:24:06,070 --> 02:24:04,000
he was diagnosed with

3813
02:24:08,710 --> 02:24:06,080
prostate cancer i believe and when he

3814
02:24:10,389 --> 02:24:08,720
had surgery to have the tumor removed

3815
02:24:11,830 --> 02:24:10,399
the doctors discovered that he also had

3816
02:24:14,469 --> 02:24:11,840
a brain tumor

3817
02:24:17,670 --> 02:24:14,479
it's the most definitely sad times for

3818
02:24:19,590 --> 02:24:17,680
dr j allen heineck

3819
02:24:22,309 --> 02:24:19,600
we'll continue with our final segment

3820
02:24:25,030 --> 02:24:22,319
with mark o'connell the final years

3821
02:24:28,370 --> 02:24:25,040
of dr j alan heineck and more

3822
02:24:38,870 --> 02:24:28,380
you're in the paracast

3823
02:24:42,389 --> 02:24:38,880
[Music]

3824
02:24:43,309 --> 02:24:42,399
you are listening to gcn

3825
02:24:44,780 --> 02:24:43,319
visit

3826
02:24:47,429 --> 02:24:44,790
gcnlive.com today

3827
02:24:49,830 --> 02:24:47,439
[Music]

3828
02:24:53,110 --> 02:24:49,840
we also have swag you know we have all

3829
02:24:55,670 --> 02:24:53,120
these exclusive power cast things that

3830
02:24:59,030 --> 02:24:55,680
you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

3831
02:25:02,469 --> 02:24:59,040
so different items and entails t-shirts

3832
02:25:05,750 --> 02:25:02,479
sleeves for notebook computers ipad

3833
02:25:07,990 --> 02:25:05,760
cases mouse pads the power cast jumbo

3834
02:25:09,670 --> 02:25:08,000
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

3835
02:25:13,190 --> 02:25:09,680
jackets and stuff like that for men and

3836
02:25:14,950 --> 02:25:13,200
women we have a powercast aluminum water

3837
02:25:18,429 --> 02:25:14,960
bottle all this stuff you go to

3838
02:25:22,950 --> 02:25:20,389
store.thepowercast.com what makes it

3839
02:25:25,750 --> 02:25:22,960
special is that the items are the best

3840
02:25:27,590 --> 02:25:25,760
quality you know great t-shirts fabrics

3841
02:25:28,870 --> 02:25:27,600
and they have our official logo on them

3842
02:25:32,070 --> 02:25:28,880
that's what makes them special in

3843
02:25:34,550 --> 02:25:32,080
multiple sizes and colors we even have

3844
02:25:36,950 --> 02:25:34,560
stuff for children stuff for women stuff

3845
02:25:39,670 --> 02:25:36,960
for men we have all sorts of sizes like

3846
02:25:41,910 --> 02:25:39,680
small up to x large a lot of good stuff

3847
02:25:43,389 --> 02:25:41,920
that's the swag from the power cast if

3848
02:25:45,990 --> 02:25:43,399
you go to

3849
02:25:48,309 --> 02:25:46,000
store.thepowercast.com stop by and take

3850
02:25:50,630 --> 02:25:48,319
a shopping tour fully cooked ready to

3851
02:25:53,110 --> 02:25:50,640
eat bacon i'm talking thick meaty center

3852
02:25:56,150 --> 02:25:53,120
cut presidential bacon savory and

3853
02:25:58,710 --> 02:25:56,160
delicious i buy some i use some i store

3854
02:26:01,270 --> 02:25:58,720
some awesome no refrigeration needed

3855
02:26:03,750 --> 02:26:01,280
with a 10 year shelf life nasa pack

3856
02:26:05,830 --> 02:26:03,760
technology bacon fully cooked fully

3857
02:26:08,230 --> 02:26:05,840
hydrated ready to eat right from the

3858
02:26:10,870 --> 02:26:08,240
packed bacon or warm and served

3859
02:26:13,870 --> 02:26:10,880
life-saving ready-to-eat bacon 10-year

3860
02:26:16,950 --> 02:26:13,880
shelf life bacon ships free at

3861
02:26:18,950 --> 02:26:16,960
fullycookedbacon.com fullycookbacon.com

3862
02:26:21,429 --> 02:26:18,960
stop put that mobile phone down because

3863
02:26:23,750 --> 02:26:21,439
it may have been compromised are you

3864
02:26:25,750 --> 02:26:23,760
aware that many identity theft issues

3865
02:26:27,830 --> 02:26:25,760
start right on your mobile device my

3866
02:26:30,550 --> 02:26:27,840
friends at libertyid.com have helped

3867
02:26:32,870 --> 02:26:30,560
over 60 000 individuals without failure

3868
02:26:35,190 --> 02:26:32,880
get their identities back because of

3869
02:26:38,349 --> 02:26:35,200
them being compromised don't be next

3870
02:26:40,830 --> 02:26:38,359
call 844 44 liberty that's

3871
02:26:43,429 --> 02:26:40,840
844-4444 liberty or visit

3872
02:26:45,429 --> 02:26:43,439
libertyid.com to find out if in fact

3873
02:26:49,110 --> 02:26:45,439
you've been compromised and use discount

3874
02:26:52,550 --> 02:26:50,870
it's a no-brainer a big berkey water

3875
02:26:53,830 --> 02:26:52,560
filter is the one you need period you

3876
02:26:56,309 --> 02:26:53,840
need a water filter that removes

3877
02:26:57,750 --> 02:26:56,319
chlorine fluoride pharmaceuticals bpa

3878
02:26:59,830 --> 02:26:57,760
and other endocrine disruptors

3879
02:27:01,590 --> 02:26:59,840
pesticides bacteria viruses and much

3880
02:27:03,429 --> 02:27:01,600
more right and does it all at only two

3881
02:27:05,349 --> 02:27:03,439
cents per gallon get the original most

3882
02:27:07,590 --> 02:27:05,359
trusted name in gravity water filtration

3883
02:27:09,590 --> 02:27:07,600
big berkey and now gcn listeners receive

3884
02:27:12,790 --> 02:27:09,600
five percent off ceramic filter systems

3885
02:27:14,030 --> 02:27:12,800
using code gcn call or click 1 877 99

3886
02:27:15,750 --> 02:27:14,040
berkey or

3887
02:27:19,429 --> 02:27:15,760
bigberkeywaterfilters.com that's one

3888
02:27:22,150 --> 02:27:19,439
eight seven seven nine nine b e r k e y

3889
02:27:24,230 --> 02:27:22,160
extendovite really works just listen to

3890
02:27:27,270 --> 02:27:24,240
what some people have to say

3891
02:27:30,630 --> 02:27:27,280
several years ago i was developing a

3892
02:27:32,230 --> 02:27:30,640
very uh severe situation i called it my

3893
02:27:35,110 --> 02:27:32,240
flippy heart

3894
02:27:37,510 --> 02:27:35,120
it was just was doing not good things

3895
02:27:39,349 --> 02:27:37,520
and i did not want to go to a medical

3896
02:27:40,710 --> 02:27:39,359
doctor because

3897
02:27:42,870 --> 02:27:40,720
i just knew they would give me a

3898
02:27:45,670 --> 02:27:42,880
cover-up pill i didn't want to get onto

3899
02:27:49,990 --> 02:27:45,680
that sort of thing at all when i learned

3900
02:27:54,070 --> 02:27:50,000
it was garlic and cayenne and cayenne is

3901
02:27:56,469 --> 02:27:54,080
a healer it is a wonderful herb i said i

3902
02:27:59,030 --> 02:27:56,479
think i'm on to something here i'll tell

3903
02:28:01,670 --> 02:27:59,040
you i wouldn't be without it it did

3904
02:28:04,550 --> 02:28:01,680
wonderful things for me extendovite is

3905
02:28:06,550 --> 02:28:04,560
only 69.95 for a two-month supply of

3906
02:28:08,910 --> 02:28:06,560
either capsules or liquid call now

3907
02:28:18,469 --> 02:28:11,940
1-877-928-8822 or visit heartdrop.com

3908
02:28:23,349 --> 02:28:21,110
be prepared for the next disaster with

3909
02:28:25,750 --> 02:28:23,359
the shelter pod the shelter pod is a

3910
02:28:27,750 --> 02:28:25,760
large all season heavy duty quick deploy

3911
02:28:29,990 --> 02:28:27,760
shelter the shelter pod system can be

3912
02:28:31,990 --> 02:28:30,000
set up in 30 seconds and includes an

3913
02:28:34,550 --> 02:28:32,000
emergency medical kit water filter

3914
02:28:36,389 --> 02:28:34,560
survival tools and more are you prepared

3915
02:28:38,710 --> 02:28:36,399
to take care of your family do you have

3916
02:28:40,389 --> 02:28:38,720
everything in one place ready to go get

3917
02:28:43,030 --> 02:28:40,399
it now or enter to win a complete

3918
02:28:45,910 --> 02:28:43,040
shelter pod system at shelterpod.com the

3919
02:28:54,309 --> 02:28:45,920
shelter pod at shelterpod.com shelter

3920
02:28:59,429 --> 02:28:56,870
hey this is marie d jones the author of

3921
02:29:02,070 --> 02:28:59,439
this book is from the future

3922
02:29:13,349 --> 02:29:02,080
and you are listening to the paracast

3923
02:29:16,790 --> 02:29:14,950
we have mark o'connell author of the

3924
02:29:18,309 --> 02:29:16,800
close encounters man

3925
02:29:19,830 --> 02:29:18,319
and he's now making the public

3926
02:29:22,630 --> 02:29:19,840
appearance circuit

3927
02:29:24,389 --> 02:29:22,640
he's been with alejandra rojas at open

3928
02:29:25,590 --> 02:29:24,399
minds you're going to join kevin randle

3929
02:29:26,870 --> 02:29:25,600
are you not

3930
02:29:28,950 --> 02:29:26,880
yes i am

3931
02:29:30,630 --> 02:29:28,960
next wednesday yeah okay a few days

3932
02:29:32,070 --> 02:29:30,640
after you hear this you can hear all

3933
02:29:34,870 --> 02:29:32,080
sorts of different versions and

3934
02:29:36,950 --> 02:29:34,880
variations now knowing his time was

3935
02:29:39,030 --> 02:29:36,960
short and this is a hard thing to ask

3936
02:29:41,670 --> 02:29:39,040
about anyone did he do anything

3937
02:29:43,429 --> 02:29:41,680
different or make plans to

3938
02:29:45,590 --> 02:29:43,439
preserve his work why

3939
02:29:48,469 --> 02:29:45,600
well there are all sorts of strange

3940
02:29:50,790 --> 02:29:48,479
situations involved in this time of his

3941
02:29:53,030 --> 02:29:50,800
life there were these two figures who

3942
02:29:55,670 --> 02:29:53,040
entered his life tina cho and brian

3943
02:29:57,349 --> 02:29:55,680
myers who um they actually were the ones

3944
02:29:59,910 --> 02:29:57,359
who convinced tynek and his wife to move

3945
02:30:01,830 --> 02:29:59,920
to arizona and thought that they could

3946
02:30:04,550 --> 02:30:01,840
arrange this financing from their friend

3947
02:30:05,670 --> 02:30:04,560
the millionaire so that all kind of fell

3948
02:30:07,429 --> 02:30:05,680
apart

3949
02:30:09,110 --> 02:30:07,439
there were always rumors and i did not

3950
02:30:11,670 --> 02:30:09,120
go into this because i just didn't see

3951
02:30:14,070 --> 02:30:11,680
any point in pursuing this story for the

3952
02:30:16,309 --> 02:30:14,080
story i wanted to tell but some there's

3953
02:30:18,070 --> 02:30:16,319
a story and i'm sure many of your your

3954
02:30:19,830 --> 02:30:18,080
listeners probably know more about this

3955
02:30:22,389 --> 02:30:19,840
story than i do about some missing ufo

3956
02:30:24,389 --> 02:30:22,399
case files from one of the amateur ufo

3957
02:30:26,630 --> 02:30:24,399
research groups that you know sort of

3958
02:30:29,110 --> 02:30:26,640
vanished from someone's office in in

3959
02:30:31,190 --> 02:30:29,120
arizona around this time so it was it

3960
02:30:33,750 --> 02:30:31,200
was a bad time for ufology in general

3961
02:30:35,349 --> 02:30:33,760
there were some exciting plans that kind

3962
02:30:37,750 --> 02:30:35,359
of fell through and then these case

3963
02:30:39,590 --> 02:30:37,760
files go missing heineck still had all

3964
02:30:42,309 --> 02:30:39,600
of his initial work though was still

3965
02:30:45,590 --> 02:30:42,319
intact at kufos in chicago so it's not

3966
02:30:48,150 --> 02:30:45,600
as though his body of research was

3967
02:30:50,150 --> 02:30:48,160
was damaged or depleted in any way that

3968
02:30:52,710 --> 02:30:50,160
was all still intact in chicago and

3969
02:30:55,349 --> 02:30:52,720
still is um but yeah it was definitely a

3970
02:30:59,270 --> 02:30:55,359
hard time and more and more though in in

3971
02:31:00,950 --> 02:30:59,280
his last days he kind of moved away from

3972
02:31:03,510 --> 02:31:00,960
you know the case files and the case

3973
02:31:06,150 --> 02:31:03,520
studies and just started thinking much

3974
02:31:07,750 --> 02:31:06,160
deeper more spiritual thoughts

3975
02:31:10,150 --> 02:31:07,760
and i get a lot of this from his son

3976
02:31:11,910 --> 02:31:10,160
paul because paul moved back in with his

3977
02:31:12,950 --> 02:31:11,920
folks during the last year of his dad's

3978
02:31:15,349 --> 02:31:12,960
life

3979
02:31:17,030 --> 02:31:15,359
so there's no better expert on what

3980
02:31:19,590 --> 02:31:17,040
happened in the final days of jail and

3981
02:31:22,070 --> 02:31:19,600
heineken than his son paul

3982
02:31:24,550 --> 02:31:22,080
so paul told me a lot about how his dad

3983
02:31:27,270 --> 02:31:24,560
sort of returned to his earlier

3984
02:31:29,110 --> 02:31:27,280
spiritual leanings not just in terms of

3985
02:31:30,469 --> 02:31:29,120
what his own life meant and what his own

3986
02:31:32,230 --> 02:31:30,479
death would mean

3987
02:31:34,070 --> 02:31:32,240
but also in terms of

3988
02:31:36,230 --> 02:31:34,080
what it could tell us about the ufo

3989
02:31:38,309 --> 02:31:36,240
phenomenon you know this idea of the

3990
02:31:41,030 --> 02:31:38,319
parallel universe or the super sensible

3991
02:31:43,750 --> 02:31:41,040
realm applied to ufos as much as it

3992
02:31:45,750 --> 02:31:43,760
applied to heineken his own soul so it

3993
02:31:47,670 --> 02:31:45,760
was a very interesting introspective

3994
02:31:50,070 --> 02:31:47,680
time for heinek

3995
02:31:52,230 --> 02:31:50,080
again very very spiritual

3996
02:31:54,309 --> 02:31:52,240
and then when he did die as i mentioned

3997
02:31:55,670 --> 02:31:54,319
in the book he was not buried for three

3998
02:31:58,230 --> 02:31:55,680
days this is a tradition of the

3999
02:32:00,150 --> 02:31:58,240
rosicrucians because they believe that

4000
02:32:01,429 --> 02:32:00,160
if the body is

4001
02:32:03,990 --> 02:32:01,439
embalmed

4002
02:32:05,990 --> 02:32:04,000
and interred too soon

4003
02:32:09,190 --> 02:32:06,000
the soul will not be able to make its

4004
02:32:11,910 --> 02:32:09,200
journey to its next level of existence

4005
02:32:13,910 --> 02:32:11,920
so this was a serious enough belief to

4006
02:32:15,670 --> 02:32:13,920
dr heineck that these were part of his

4007
02:32:17,830 --> 02:32:15,680
final wishes that he would not be

4008
02:32:20,790 --> 02:32:17,840
embalmed or buried for three days

4009
02:32:23,030 --> 02:32:20,800
according to rosicrucian teachings wow

4010
02:32:25,429 --> 02:32:23,040
and and what about his legacy i mean you

4011
02:32:27,750 --> 02:32:25,439
said the organization itself is just uh

4012
02:32:30,070 --> 02:32:27,760
basically a small office now but you

4013
02:32:33,030 --> 02:32:30,080
know he's been a a huge

4014
02:32:35,429 --> 02:32:33,040
influence on on people and his work

4015
02:32:37,110 --> 02:32:35,439
seems to continue maybe not exactly as

4016
02:32:39,750 --> 02:32:37,120
he would have wanted it but but what do

4017
02:32:42,710 --> 02:32:39,760
you think about where ufology is now i

4018
02:32:44,230 --> 02:32:42,720
don't look so much at ufology as i just

4019
02:32:46,309 --> 02:32:44,240
look at the broader cultural

4020
02:32:47,990 --> 02:32:46,319
implications of hynek's work

4021
02:32:50,150 --> 02:32:48,000
and i think if you look at that there's

4022
02:32:53,429 --> 02:32:50,160
there's no denying the man has has had

4023
02:32:54,630 --> 02:32:53,439
an immense immense influence on all of

4024
02:32:57,590 --> 02:32:54,640
our lives

4025
02:33:00,950 --> 02:32:57,600
our constant fascination with flying

4026
02:33:04,150 --> 02:33:00,960
saucers and aliens the x-files all the

4027
02:33:05,590 --> 02:33:04,160
alien invasion movies and tv series the

4028
02:33:06,630 --> 02:33:05,600
series that have been made over the

4029
02:33:08,389 --> 02:33:06,640
years

4030
02:33:11,110 --> 02:33:08,399
all of these things

4031
02:33:13,110 --> 02:33:11,120
really came about because heinek was

4032
02:33:15,590 --> 02:33:13,120
willing to go out on the limb

4033
02:33:18,070 --> 02:33:15,600
decades ago and say

4034
02:33:20,150 --> 02:33:18,080
hey this isn't just people's imagination

4035
02:33:22,150 --> 02:33:20,160
there is something real going on here

4036
02:33:23,429 --> 02:33:22,160
and if we're smart we'll try to figure

4037
02:33:25,190 --> 02:33:23,439
out what that is

4038
02:33:26,790 --> 02:33:25,200
even if we never do figure out what it

4039
02:33:28,950 --> 02:33:26,800
is we should keep trying because it

4040
02:33:30,870 --> 02:33:28,960
could be really important it could be an

4041
02:33:33,110 --> 02:33:30,880
important part of our existence and the

4042
02:33:36,230 --> 02:33:33,120
reason why we're here so

4043
02:33:40,150 --> 02:33:36,240
i believe that hynek's legacy is immense

4044
02:33:42,070 --> 02:33:40,160
our culture is so permeated with ufo

4045
02:33:44,630 --> 02:33:42,080
thoughts and imagery

4046
02:33:47,270 --> 02:33:44,640
and it's not just the ufo field it's

4047
02:33:48,469 --> 02:33:47,280
also modern science so much of modern

4048
02:33:50,469 --> 02:33:48,479
science

4049
02:33:52,469 --> 02:33:50,479
comes about because of the pioneering

4050
02:33:55,190 --> 02:33:52,479
work that heinek did as an astronomer in

4051
02:33:57,190 --> 02:33:55,200
the 40s and 50s and 60s the hubble space

4052
02:33:58,950 --> 02:33:57,200
telescope our whole series of space

4053
02:34:01,510 --> 02:33:58,960
telescopes including the kepler

4054
02:34:04,630 --> 02:34:01,520
telescope that was hynek's idea back in

4055
02:34:07,349 --> 02:34:04,640
the 1950s in the early 60s heineck was

4056
02:34:09,590 --> 02:34:07,359
the first astronomer to try to get a

4057
02:34:11,429 --> 02:34:09,600
telescope up above the earth's

4058
02:34:13,349 --> 02:34:11,439
atmosphere where it could get clearer

4059
02:34:15,270 --> 02:34:13,359
images of astronomical bodies that was

4060
02:34:18,070 --> 02:34:15,280
heinek's idea and that's what became the

4061
02:34:21,030 --> 02:34:18,080
hubble space telescope so if you put

4062
02:34:23,510 --> 02:34:21,040
together the influence on pop culture on

4063
02:34:26,790 --> 02:34:23,520
ufology and on modern science

4064
02:34:29,990 --> 02:34:26,800
you've got a massive legacy that i think

4065
02:34:33,270 --> 02:34:30,000
continues to shape our world even today

4066
02:34:35,349 --> 02:34:33,280
now one thing here it's kind of too bad

4067
02:34:36,790 --> 02:34:35,359
heinick was involved in a book called

4068
02:34:38,630 --> 02:34:36,800
night siege

4069
02:34:41,030 --> 02:34:38,640
and one of the co-authors was of course

4070
02:34:43,030 --> 02:34:41,040
philip and brockno who unfortunately

4071
02:34:45,270 --> 02:34:43,040
turned out to be a big fake later on i

4072
02:34:48,710 --> 02:34:45,280
just wonder what dr heineck would have

4073
02:34:54,389 --> 02:34:51,590
well i think he probably would have been

4074
02:34:57,270 --> 02:34:54,399
deeply embarrassed um i think that book

4075
02:34:59,110 --> 02:34:57,280
came i never dug into that a whole lot

4076
02:35:01,270 --> 02:34:59,120
it wasn't really central to the story i

4077
02:35:03,110 --> 02:35:01,280
was trying to tell in the book but from

4078
02:35:06,150 --> 02:35:03,120
what i understand

4079
02:35:07,910 --> 02:35:06,160
that book came about at a time when

4080
02:35:09,590 --> 02:35:07,920
you know i think it was heineken was

4081
02:35:11,910 --> 02:35:09,600
coming off the disappointment of things

4082
02:35:13,910 --> 02:35:11,920
not working out so well in arizona and

4083
02:35:16,630 --> 02:35:13,920
he was he was kind of you know looking

4084
02:35:18,389 --> 02:35:16,640
for maybe that one one more case

4085
02:35:20,230 --> 02:35:18,399
that would point the way that would

4086
02:35:21,190 --> 02:35:20,240
maybe give us some final piece of

4087
02:35:22,550 --> 02:35:21,200
evidence

4088
02:35:23,910 --> 02:35:22,560
he was fascinated with a couple of

4089
02:35:25,590 --> 02:35:23,920
different cases at that period the

4090
02:35:26,870 --> 02:35:25,600
hessdalen lights i think i'm pronouncing

4091
02:35:29,429 --> 02:35:26,880
that properly

4092
02:35:30,710 --> 02:35:29,439
the cash landrum sighting and of course

4093
02:35:32,870 --> 02:35:30,720
the sightings in the book that you're

4094
02:35:35,590 --> 02:35:32,880
talking about those were kind of

4095
02:35:38,070 --> 02:35:35,600
hynek's sort of last attempt to try to

4096
02:35:40,389 --> 02:35:38,080
sort of glean something about the ufo

4097
02:35:42,150 --> 02:35:40,399
phenomenon from a few final cases

4098
02:35:44,710 --> 02:35:42,160
but yeah that one in particular i think

4099
02:35:47,349 --> 02:35:44,720
he probably would be embarrassed if he

4100
02:35:49,429 --> 02:35:47,359
had known how it all washed out

4101
02:35:51,510 --> 02:35:49,439
did heineck ever consider the

4102
02:35:53,590 --> 02:35:51,520
possibility of some of those early ufo

4103
02:35:54,550 --> 02:35:53,600
cases and i'll mention roswell as an

4104
02:35:56,230 --> 02:35:54,560
example

4105
02:35:58,070 --> 02:35:56,240
may have been the result of some kind of

4106
02:35:59,510 --> 02:35:58,080
government experiment

4107
02:36:01,510 --> 02:35:59,520
well he just didn't like to talk about

4108
02:36:04,469 --> 02:36:01,520
salsa craft stories at all he found them

4109
02:36:06,710 --> 02:36:04,479
pretty distasteful and part of that was

4110
02:36:08,550 --> 02:36:06,720
if you're talking about a saucer crash

4111
02:36:10,950 --> 02:36:08,560
then the implication is

4112
02:36:13,110 --> 02:36:10,960
that the saucer was a nuts and bolts

4113
02:36:16,150 --> 02:36:13,120
phenomenon it was a physical object that

4114
02:36:18,710 --> 02:36:16,160
had been created by some

4115
02:36:21,349 --> 02:36:18,720
intelligence and again heineck never

4116
02:36:23,990 --> 02:36:21,359
wanted to commit himself to that kind of

4117
02:36:26,710 --> 02:36:24,000
thinking so he he just stayed away from

4118
02:36:29,030 --> 02:36:26,720
cases like that and as far as you know

4119
02:36:30,630 --> 02:36:29,040
the air force cover up again he he

4120
02:36:32,790 --> 02:36:30,640
believed the air force's cover-up had

4121
02:36:35,590 --> 02:36:32,800
more to do with them not knowing things

4122
02:36:36,870 --> 02:36:35,600
than actually knowing things so you know

4123
02:36:38,389 --> 02:36:36,880
i don't have much of an answer for you

4124
02:36:39,910 --> 02:36:38,399
those were cases that heineken actually

4125
02:36:41,990 --> 02:36:39,920
shied away from and i think with good

4126
02:36:43,590 --> 02:36:42,000
reason if our listeners want to know

4127
02:36:44,710 --> 02:36:43,600
more about the things that mark

4128
02:36:46,550 --> 02:36:44,720
o'connell

4129
02:36:48,790 --> 02:36:46,560
has done or is doing where can they

4130
02:36:50,389 --> 02:36:48,800
check you out well there's the book the

4131
02:36:52,469 --> 02:36:50,399
close encounters man which is now

4132
02:36:53,910 --> 02:36:52,479
available at bookstores everywhere and i

4133
02:36:56,309 --> 02:36:53,920
also write a blog called high

4134
02:36:58,630 --> 02:36:56,319
strangeness and you can find that at

4135
02:37:01,590 --> 02:36:58,640
highstrangenessufo.com

4136
02:37:02,710 --> 02:37:01,600
that's high strangers ufo all one word

4137
02:37:04,230 --> 02:37:02,720
dot com

4138
02:37:05,990 --> 02:37:04,240
kurt collins if our listeners want to

4139
02:37:07,950 --> 02:37:06,000
know more about your stuff where do they

4140
02:37:09,510 --> 02:37:07,960
go

4141
02:37:11,429 --> 02:37:09,520
blueglorylines.com

4142
02:37:13,349 --> 02:37:11,439
okay you can find us on twitter if you

4143
02:37:16,230 --> 02:37:13,359
look for the powercast

4144
02:37:18,630 --> 02:37:16,240
you can also find us on facebook two

4145
02:37:20,550 --> 02:37:18,640
official powercast fan clubs because

4146
02:37:21,910 --> 02:37:20,560
nobody can do just one no that doesn't

4147
02:37:24,469 --> 02:37:21,920
even sound right

4148
02:37:26,230 --> 02:37:24,479
we also have that special service for

4149
02:37:28,230 --> 02:37:26,240
you where you can get a commercial free

4150
02:37:30,790 --> 02:37:28,240
version of this show free of 41 minutes

4151
02:37:33,910 --> 02:37:30,800
of networks ads that we just cut out you

4152
02:37:36,790 --> 02:37:33,920
never hear them better quality audio and

4153
02:37:39,270 --> 02:37:36,800
the way to do that is to become a member

4154
02:37:41,830 --> 02:37:39,280
of the power cast plus go to plus pl

4155
02:37:44,870 --> 02:37:41,840
us.thepowercast.com

4156
02:37:46,870 --> 02:37:44,880
that's plus.theparacast.com

4157
02:37:49,510 --> 02:37:46,880
we also give you the after the power

4158
02:37:52,550 --> 02:37:49,520
cast podcast which is absolutely a

4159
02:37:54,389 --> 02:37:52,560
thousand percent unpredictable okay

4160
02:37:55,910 --> 02:37:54,399
totally unpredictable we never know

4161
02:37:58,710 --> 02:37:55,920
what's going to happen

4162
02:38:03,990 --> 02:37:58,720
we have special guests we have people

4163
02:38:06,070 --> 02:38:04,000
talking it's uninhibited and uncensored

4164
02:38:07,190 --> 02:38:06,080
so check out how to become a member of

4165
02:38:09,750 --> 02:38:07,200
the powercast plus at

4166
02:38:12,150 --> 02:38:09,760
plus.thepowercast.com

4167
02:38:13,510 --> 02:38:12,160
this prices start at just

4168
02:38:15,750 --> 02:38:13,520
a dollar

4169
02:38:17,990 --> 02:38:15,760
49 a week

4170
02:38:20,710 --> 02:38:18,000
and now imagine what it costs to buy

4171
02:38:22,710 --> 02:38:20,720
a starbucks coffee plus that the

4172
02:38:25,270 --> 02:38:22,720
powercast.com

4173
02:38:27,830 --> 02:38:25,280
hey kurt thank you so much on like an

4174
02:38:29,830 --> 02:38:27,840
hour and a half notice

4175
02:38:31,750 --> 02:38:29,840
filling in as the guest co-host this

4176
02:38:33,830 --> 02:38:31,760
week we really appreciate it well you

4177
02:38:35,830 --> 02:38:33,840
had a good guest and i i would listen to

4178
02:38:37,270 --> 02:38:35,840
the show i was glad to be part of it

4179
02:38:40,469 --> 02:38:37,280
mark o'connell

4180
02:38:42,950 --> 02:38:40,479
thank you so much for remembering

4181
02:38:44,550 --> 02:38:42,960
a really great guy thank you for joining

4182
02:38:46,710 --> 02:38:44,560
us on the power cast

4183
02:38:48,630 --> 02:38:46,720
thank you both for having me and for

4184
02:39:04,469 --> 02:38:48,640
making the whole experience so much fun

4185
02:39:10,230 --> 02:39:07,349
the paracast featuring jean steinberg

4186
02:39:13,190 --> 02:39:10,240
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

4187
02:39:14,950 --> 02:39:13,200
presentation of making the impossible

4188
02:39:19,110 --> 02:39:14,960
incorporated